Dang, I just realized what I did wrong. I had been thinking as I connected the sense lines it was arbitrary which end of the battery was B1 and which B13, but obviously it isn’t. B1 has to be the negative end and B13 has to be the positive end. Since I already cut the sense lines to length, I’ll need to put my replacement BMS on the opposite end of the pack.
What I would recommend doing is trying to ride again and when the battery cuts off, take it inside and measure the voltage of each parallel group before you try recharging it. Measure straight on the battery. If you find one group that is lower than the rest, it is likely the problem. It might have risen back up to a reasonable voltage with no load, but it can still be lower than the rest.
LiPo packs that are homebuilt (without a BMS) can be extremely dangerous if you do not approach your battery with a lot of knowledge and care. Be sure to research extensively before building such a pack. Many E-bikers construct packs with no BMS using Turnigy/Zippy packs, acquired cheaply online through the Hobby King company which is based in China. For those who risk running their batteries without BMS they still use sophisticated chargers to balance their packs and constantly monitor the health of their cells.
Hi Micah, thank you for your advice. I am not going to touch that battery. I know this may be a lot to ask, but would you build me a battery for my velomini 1 ? It doesn’t have to be the one that fits in the frame, I could put it in a bag and hang it on the handlebars or something. If more convenient you can email me directly at dlimjr at yahoo. My sincere thanks and may you and your family have a happy holiday.. Don, San Francisco
NiMH-Nickel Metal Hydride. This was the battery of choice for military application and the first-gen Prius hybrid car. Very reliable and stable, with a long cycle life. It has a high nickel content, so its expensive now (but the nickel can be re-cycled). With a low C-rate, you need a very big battery to draw high peak amps. Perhaps not a problem on a car with its huge battery pack, but on a bicycle, the smaller pack restricts the user to low amp-draw performance.
Once I’ve got all the cells I need checked out and ensured they have matching voltages, I like to arrange them on my work surface in the orientation of the intended pack. This gives me one final check to make sure the orientation will work as planned, and a chance to see the real-life size of the pack, minus a little bit of padding and heat shrink wrap.
It is possible to do it that way, however there are some compelling reasons not to. 1) By first joining all the series cells you would end up with multiple high voltage groups, which means both the chance and consequences of an accident are greater. When you’re working with lots of exposed batteries with nickel conductors and metal tools flying around, the last thing you want is more high voltage possibilities for shorts. 2) Doing series cells first would be come unwieldy, physically. A series group is only connected at either the top or bottom of alternating cells. Without having multiple cells side by side to add stability, a long chain of single cells will need either a pile of glue or some type of physical holder to support the chain. and 3) most battery spot welders can only reach about 2 cells deep into a pack, meaning you’d have to either add very short nickel strips to each series group connecting only two groups (which means twice the welding and twice the cell damaging heat) or have long uncontrolled nickel strips hanging off the sides, again risking shorting.
A higher voltage setup therefore needs fewer amp-hours to deliver the same range. So a 24V 8Ah battery can deliver 192 watt-hours, while a 48V 4Ah pack also has 192 watt-hours. Assuming that both batteries are of the same chemistry, then you could expect they would weigh the same, cost the same, and provide the same performance on appropriately designed ebikes (ie, one designed for 24V and the other for 48V).
You too can find a metal box to store your batteries in while riding and charging. Here is an example of a custom built metal box that holds six hobby king packs perfectly (make certain to add a vent so pressure does not build up if a pack goes into flames!):
The chain is a very important bicycle part. It is responsible for turning the wheel when a cyclist pedals the bike. Problems with the chain create major riding problems. Chains commonly get dry or rusty,…
I have an old 12V DC Brush Motor which its consumption is around the 12A, 13 A and I built a Battery pack, with two groups of batteries, (4S6P)+(4S6P), which makes a total pack with 14,8V 30A. To make this battery pack I used 18650 Samsung Cells 2600 mAh.
$Xport 350W 7 Speed Electric Bike Features: 350W motor, Samsung Lithium Battery 3 Riding Modes: Electric (Throttle, 3 speed), Electric with Pedal, Pedal Only Spec: Motor: 350W Battery: 24V Samsung Lit…
If you have some wire scrap left from any other project you could use them to lengthen the sense wires to your BMS and not need to relocate the BMS. Very little current travels through the sense wires so you can use very small diameter wire. Even the wire from an old USB cable would work.
Yes, you can upgrade a GIO PB710 with a lithium battery. You just want to make sure your battery is the same voltage as the original lead acid battery and that it can handle the current demanded by the bike’s controller.
Assuming the original battery is a li-ion battery and has the same number of cells in series (same voltage), then yes it should charge it. However, looking at the picture of the battery in that listing, I can tell you that is not a picture a 24V 25AH battery. That picture has 6 cells, and a 24V 25AH battery will have something more like 56 cells. That picture looks like a 22V 3AH battery. It could be that they simply used the wrong picture in the listing, though I doubt it as that would be an insanely good price for that size of a battery. but I’d be wary of that offer either way.
You’ve done your math correctly, though that “1000W” figure is largely arbitrary, and probably not the exact power level of the kit. Most 1000W kits I’ve seen use controllers in the 20-25A range, but it can vary greatly.
1C charging is too high for most Li-ion. It’s too much to ask for right now, to be able to charge an entire pack in one hour. It can be done, but it’s not healthy for the cells. Aim for 0.5C at the most. I usually don’t go past 0.3C on charging.
NCA…LiNiCoAl / Lithium Nickel Cobalt Aluminum (sometimes called NCR) The battery chemistry research industry is still driven by the HUGE global sales of laptop computers, cellphones, and cordless tools. Mass production has made the 18650 format the best cost per volume cell. The 18650 number means that it is 18mm in diameter, 65mm long, and the zero means it is a cylinder instead of a flat foil packet. (the 18650 is roughly the size of an adult male thumb) [edit: in 2014, Tesla electric cars are now using Panasonic NCA batteries]
A recent quote from ES member SamTexas on claimed max C-rates: “…I have in front of me Samsung’s own Nickel (Manganese) 18650 cells….I have tested these cells at 3C continuous and they do deliver full capacity at that rate. Push it to 5C and they become hot and capacity is greatly reduced…“
These cells are distinctive due to their cylindrical shape and are about the size of a finger. Depending on the size of the battery you plan to build, you’ll need anywhere from a few dozen to a few hundred of them.
Good question. The answer comes down to the difference between “nominal voltage” and “actual voltage”. LiFePO4 cells are nominally called 3.2V cells, because this is their voltage in the middle of their discharge curve, at about 50% discharge. They actually charger to a higher voltage though, about 3.7V per cell. That means that you need a charger that has an output voltage of 3.7V x 6 cells = 22.2V DC. This is going to be a bit harder to find because most LiFePO4 packs come in multiples of 4 cells, (4, 8, 12, 16 cells, etc) so finding a charger for a 6S pack might take some searching. This charger is a good quality one meant for 8 cells (output voltage of 29.2V DC) but if you put a note in the purchase order, the seller can adjust the output for 6 LiFePO4 cells (22.2V DC). http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/aluminum-shell-24V-29-2V-3Amper-Lifepo4-battery-charger-high-quality-charger-for-8S-lifepo4-battery/1680408_32274890691.html
Just completed the pipeline challenge 600km of grueling maintenance trail. plenty of sand, rocks pea gravel, some road stages. Running an 8T MAC in a 29ER with 2x 29E EM3ev triangle ebike battery packs (one borrowed from Kai in review above!) managed 99kms on a single charge using …
Some of the NMC sellers are advertising their chemistry as 5C, but real-world use by E-bike builders has them calling NMC a solid reliable 3C chemistry, which can provide a continuous 30A from an affordable and compact 10-Ah battery (temporary peak amp-draws can be higher, as it is with any of these chemistries). This may sound only as good as the most recent LiFePO4, but NMC is smaller, and is not as fussy about keeping the individual cells balanced.
When comparing between battery chemistries, one of the most relevant metrics is the Energy Density in watt-hrs / kg. This figure says how heavy a battery pack will have to be to achieve a certain range. For Lead Acid it is 20-30 whrs/kg, for NiCad it is 35-40 whrs/kg, NiMH is 50-60 whrs/kg, Li-ion is ~110 whrs/kg, and Li-Polymer is up to 160 whrs / kg. Knowing these values makes it easy to project the weight of a pack without having to look up data from the manufacturer.
Really nice article you made here. very helpful. I do have some questions about the BMS board you used. Would you know where I could find any type of schematic for it because im trying to see whether I can use more then one of those BMS boards on one pack
Yes, it’s technically possible, but sometimes it is easier said than done. If the cells are on the edge of your battery, it’s much easier to cut them out (by the nickel, not by cutting the actual cell!) and replace them. If they are sandwiched in the middle of your pack then you’ll have to do a lot more pack surgery to get in and replace them. But yes, it’s possible to just remove them and replace them with new, good cells of the same capacity.
In general, the size and cost of a cell will scale directly with its amp-hour capacity. To a first order, twice the amp-hours would mean twice the size, twice the weight, and twice the cost. In practice this deviates a little due to different packing densities and production scales, but it’s usually pretty close. For instance, the familiar ‘AA’ NiMH has about 2 Ah, a ‘C’ cell has 4 Ah, a ‘D’ cell is about 8Ah, the large ‘F’ cells are 12-13 Ah, and double-D cells http://electricbikemotor.net 18-19Ah.
This is 14 series 52V (58.8v full charge) lithium battery power protection board. Balanced, same port continuous 45A discharge. 1x 14S 45A Lithium Battery Protection Board. Step2：After confirm the wir…
You are eligible for a full refund if no ShippingPass-eligible orders have been placed. You cannot receive a refund if you have placed a ShippingPass-eligible order. In this case, the Customer Care team will remove your account from auto-renewal to ensure you are not charged for an additional year and you can continue to use the subscription until the end of your subscription term.
This had led me to believe that if there is too much load being exerted on the bike (i.e. the current being drawn from the battery is too high) then either the BMS or the controller trips and cuts out. However I am reluctant to believe that the BMS is causing the trouble as it has a 40A rating on it (this link shows the exact BMS) http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Electric-motor-car-13S-48V-40A-BMS-lithium-ion-battery-BMS-Used-for-48V-20Ah-30Ah/32484213150.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.62.evx6sX .
There is some research into 18650 packs that use pressure connectors like in a remote control but most results aren’t impressive yet. It’s difficult to get a good enough connection to deliver high enough power for ebike applications. The ones that are close to working use custom designed enclosures. Don’t attempt to do it with off-the-shelf 18650 holders with spring contacts — you’ll melt them in no time.