“scooter with battery -battery electric bicycle”

LiFePO4-Lithium Iron Phosphate. This was the first lithium chemistry that really took off for use in cordless drills and laptop computers. Mass production brought the prices down, and E-bikers began buying cordless drill packs and gutting them for the cylindrical cells, so they could be re-configured from the stock 18V up to 48V (or more). The common low C-rate was around 1C, so builders began making packs for high voltage to get better performance without stressing the pack by trying to pull high amps. LiFePO4 requires a sophisticated Battery-Management-System (BMS) to stay healthy.

There are two prevalent ideas in pack constructing in these modern days…one is to use larger pouch-like soft cells to construct the pack. The stealthiest battery chemistry by far is LiPo, large cells with power-dense cobalt in the anode chemistry, such as what comes in Hobby King cells. Here is what I mean by “large cell” LiPo. These are soft pouches and large. When you use a pack made of these it will consist of fewer wired together cells than if you use small cylinder cells.

LiPo’s are the smallest, cheapest, lightest and most powerful lithium batteries. Their disadvantages include short lifespan and propensity to combust into giant fireballs if not cared for correctly (I’m not kidding, check out the short video clip below).

I assume you mean 52V (14s, or 14 cells in series) which is a somewhat common lithium ion battery configuration. It works with most 48V setups but provides a little more power than a standard 48V (13s or 13 cell) battery. A good charger I recommend for 52V 14s batteries is this one.

I am however encountering problems in finding a BMS for my pack which will be 2 or 3 P and 7 S to replace 24V 6 AH in frame battery pack. Can you please enlighten me as to where I can access a suitable BMS. Thanks for any help. K.

Next, I added the third parallel group after the second, hot gluing it in place in the same orientation as the first, so the top of the pack alternates from positive terminals to negative terminals and back to positive terminals along the first three parallel groups.

We also maintain stock of replacement vertical seattube batteries that have been in use in the eZee bicycle line since time immemorial. If you have an eZee bike circa 2008-2012 with the Phylion lithium battery pack, you’ll be in for a serious upgrade with over twice the capacity in the same size and weight.

Thanks for your kind words about my article, I’m glad it helped! To answer your question, I highly recommend avoiding a custom built charger. While it might be possible to use a DC-DC converter to change the output voltage of your 12V charger, the chances of a problem occurring are too high for my liking. The converter might not be smart enough to adjust the current down once full charge is reached. Technically your BMS should protect your battery from most overcharging scenarios, but if it is overloaded and a component fails, there is nothing to stop your cells from being destroyed.

The bike was more than happy to run and pull me along as long as the throttle was kept very low (<~30%) but as soon the throttle was turned more or I came across a slight gradient uphill the system would cut off (no lights or power). I then have to plug the battery into my charger to 'reset' it before I can then plug it back into my bike and make it work again. I have to keep the throttle low whilst I am riding on the bike before it cuts out but if the wheel is spinning freely in the air then I can max out the throttle and make the motor run at full speed. The answer is that, unless you are seriously budget or weight constrained, this would probably be a bad battery investment. It might fit the bill initially for your commuting needs, but then it doesn't really leave any reserve if you need to run some errands on the way home, or forget to charge it up one night etc. Even worse, http://electricbicycletechnologies.com the battery ages over time the capacity drops. After a year your 8Ah battery is now only 7Ah, it's only barely able to do your daily commute, and the next year when it is just 6Ah you now need to carry the charger with you and top it up at work every day. [redirect url='http://bestelectricbikebattery.com//bump' sec='7']

“48 volt scooter battery |batteries for electric bicycles”

You too can find a metal box to store your batteries in while riding and charging.  Here is an example of a custom built metal box that holds six hobby king packs perfectly (make certain to add a vent so pressure does not build up if a pack goes into flames!):

Manufacturers usually rate their cells’ capacity at very low discharge rates, sometimes just 0.1c, where the cells perform at their maximum. So don’t be surprised if you’re only getting 95% or so of the advertised capacity of your cells during real world discharges. That’s to be expected. Also, your capacity is likely to go up a bit after the first few charge and discharge cycles as the cells get broken in and balance to one another.

Also I wanted to “hide” the batteries in the Brompton frame aligning the batteries in file, I understand it would not have a long range but would be quite stealthy. If you have any recommendations please do tell me

Secondly, what is your take on modular plastic battery spacers (e.g. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50x-EV-Pack-Plastic-Heat-Holder-Bracket-Battery-Spacer-18650-Radiating-Shell-New/351681365193?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D36381%26meid%3Dfc487881e617412ba361731154a742b5%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D262123820960). Clearly this adds a significant volume penalty and a smaller weight / cost one, but if this is not an issue then how would you rate vs glueing? I can see the benefit of having a space between the cells to limit heat / electrical conductivity in the event of some kind of melt down, but any thoughts?

Really nice article you made here. very helpful. I do have some questions about the BMS board you used. Would you know where I could find any type of schematic for it because im trying to see whether I can use more then one of those BMS boards on one pack

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I love this article and I am inspired by the knowledge here, I have a question, I need to build a 72v battery and the one I’m looking at is using 38160 cells, these cells are very expensive so how can I manage this the best using the smaller normal size cells like you’re using! Do I really have to make a battery 20 cells deep to reach this and to bump up the amp hours I would let say go 10 wide for a 30 amp hour right? Pretty close! Big battery but is it feasible or is there a better product

In many situations, especially if you are replacing a battery pack on an existing setup, the voltage is defined by the controller electronics and cannot be readily changed. Otherwise, the voltage determines the maximum speed at which your vehicle will travel, and you have a degree of freedom in selecting the voltage to meet your performance expectations. If you know the volts/rpm for the motor, then it is straightforward to calculate how fast it will go for a given voltage. Select a value that gives an unloaded speed of about 20% greater than your desired cruising speed for best performance.

Regarding that welder, I’ve used it on a 20A circuit but I don’t own it (it belongs to a friend of mine) so I can’t give you the best firsthand experience as I’ve only used it at his place on a 20A circuit. My welders, which are similar but a slightly earlier model, are run on a 20A circuit at my home. I live in Israel and we have 220V wiring at home like in Europe, so I can’t tell you for sure how it will work on 110V. If there is the option of running it off 220V in your garage or laundry room, that could be another option, but I’ve heard of people running on 110V in the US without problems so I can’t say for sure. Sorry I’m not more help on that front.

I have an unrelated problem. I am prototyping a 1/3 scale model of a top fuel funny car.It’s 5 ft long, 2ft wide, wt. is approx. 100lbs.. I need to go 120 mph in under 4 seconds in 333 feet. Will the 5405 mtr. suffice? I know your going to ask alot of tech. questions but thats all I have for now.Any help in this quest for speed is greatly apprecated. Thank you robert lathrop

Here is a an example of a large format soft pouch LiPo pack with 13 cells, and a BMS. This pack was built using cobalt LiPo soft cells with a BMS from a Chinese factory for an electric bike. You can see the top cell has been squished, causing the cell to fail and the BMS to shut down the battery, and not allowing it to charge or discharge. This pack is small and light (7lbs).  This $500 pack is now ruined, but  all is not lost since it did not start a fire, and it did NOT take the house with it.

36v 10Ah Bottle Type Battery. Rated capacity: 10Ah. 36v 14Ah Rear Rack Type Battery. Rated capacity: 14Ah. 48V 14Ah Rear Rack Type Battery. Recommended to be used with 36V 250W electric bicycle motor.

i am building a 10s4p 36v 18650 battery pack for my ebike, what gauge silicon wire you recommend for discharge and charge wires, i am using 2.5 amp 42.5v li-ion battery charger bought from ebay(http://www.ebay.com/itm/281639749374?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT), and 10s 36v 30amp bms bought from ebay(http://www.ebay.com/itm/182247900118?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT) and 500w 36v controller.

Something that’s worthy of note, is that “AllCell” is using a block of graphite/wax composite Phase-Change-Material (PCM) using a patented formula. If a single cell suddenly starts running hot, the heat is instantly spread out across the PCM block, which would prevent a thermal runaway event. According to a recent press-release:

Panasonic and Samsung are the only manufacturers I know of that are producing this chemistry (several other manufacturers buy these and re-label them as their own). Since you would have to buy the bare cells in order to solder together your own pack, I wouldn’t have mentioned these just yet, but…EBAY-seller supowerbattery111 is selling these, and…he will also professionally spot-weld the cells into groups for a small fee, which reduces your pack-building efforts down to about 1/10th of what it would be otherwise. His main business seems to be refurbishing cordless tool battery packs that have worn out.

Rated Capacity: 10Ah. Recommended to be used with 36V 250W electric bicycle motor. 36V 750W 20″ Front Tire e-Bike. Charge Current: 2A. Model: Bottle Type. 1 Year manufacturer warranty for CHARGER. Use…

When we add the fourth parallel group, we’ll again hot glue it in place in the opposite orientation of the third parallel group (and the same orientation of the second parallel group) and then weld it on the opposite side as we welded between the second and batteries for electric scooter group (and the same side as we welded between the first and second group).

For BMS’s, the highest quality ones come from a company called BesTechPower but they are more expensive. I have mostly used BMS’s from AliExpress. I’ve linked to a few examples of BMS’s I’ve used in the article above.

Before I seal my batteries in heat shrink, I like to wrap them in a thin layer of foam for added protection. This helps keep the ends of your cells from getting dinged if the battery receives any rough treatment, which can happen accidentally in the form of a dropped battery or ebike accident. The foam also helps to dampen the vibrations that the battery will experience on the bike.

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22f cells are quite low capacity and not very strong. They will work for an ebike (and are about the cheapest good quality cells out there) but they aren’t optimal. You’ll end up with a larger and heavier pack as compared to more energy dense cells like Panasonic 18650pf or Sanyo 18650ga cells.

Landcrossers Hailong E-Bike Battery. Case Material:ABS Aluminium alloy. Fuse Installation position:Inside on the PCB. Fuse Diameter(mm):5. Fuse Length(mm):30. Fuse Current: 30A. 1 x Lithium Battery wi…

40% grade hills? That’s huge! You’ll definitely want a cell that can perform at high current since you’ll be pulling peak power from those cells to get up those big hills. Something like the Samsung 25R would be a good choice for this application.

A high quality USA battery manufacturer by the name of “Allcell” constructs packs consisting of 18650 cells (cylindrical cells that are 18mm diameter and 65mm long) and uses high tech packing materials to spread out the cells and thus the pack gets a longer life. This is the pack of choice in many high end commercially available ebikes including the Optibike, the Picycle, and the Hanebrink. (click on each to see article on that electric bike). The 18650 battery cell format is mass-produced for laptop computers and cordless tools.

“electric bike build bicycle battery kit”

Is there same officially recognized method to come up with C ratings? Ping claims 2C on his LiFePo4 batteries, my Chinese-made “BMC” battery claims 3C. Can they just sort of say whatever they want? How do we determine the “real” C rating?

LiMn was by far the most common chemistry in cheap (and expensive!) built up electric bikes for a long time. It’s a cheap, light, safe chemistry. The problem is low C, but much more importantly short life. And not just a short number of cycles but a short shelf life as well. Losing 20% capacity a year even if you don’t use the battery much leads to a lot of expense and warranty claims. LiNiCoMn has the same low cycle life, light and cheap characteristics, but it seems to have a longer shelf life and a slightly higher C.

I have built a few 13s lithium batteries in the past year following your instructions. Thanks. I have taken one of the batteries apart to check its condition as it is the middle of winter here in Winnipeg, Canada. Two parallel sets were out of balance with the rest of the pack. I was wondering if there is a way to use my imax b6 balance chargers to rewire the battery and keep each parallel pack in balance for sure! This way I will bypass the bms. Does this make sense?

This is truly inspiring, this has helped me out in so many ways, I have a few questions I want to ask please. I was looking to withdraw amps by making connections from the battery directly but charging it through the bms as my bms is similar to yours max withdraw of 40 but I need upto 50a. and also are most BMS self balancing ? Meaning wil they always try to balance themselves even when they are not being charged ? Hope to hear from you soon kind regards

Two things to keep in mind: 1) make sure you use a thick enough wire between the series-wired modules, especially if you are going a long distance. The longer the wire, the more resistance there will be so compensate with a thick wire. 14 or 12 awg silicone wire would be great. And 2) you need to also make sure you’ve got thick enough wire for the balance wires from the BMS (since you’ll of course batteries electrical to run all the small BMS wires to the modules as well). Ensure those solder joints are strong, as they’ll be on long and flexing wires with increased chance for damage or breaking at the joints. Those are normally tiny wires but if they are going to be extra long then something like 20 awg should be fine.

At the same time though, think about if that is what you want. It could be that those cells died because of a malfunctioning BMS unit or old wiring. Putting new cells in their spots could just wind up killing those new cells in a few days or weeks. I’ve seen that happen as well. So make sure you check everything and consider all of your options!

Lithium Battery technology in a bicycle is still experimental and you have to use a lot of common sense when using these batteries. However with a little education and some end user carefulness, you can use lithium batteries safely, the same as you can safely deal with putting gasoline in your riding lawn mower.

While it is possible to build packs with any number of cells for just about any voltage, most have standardized in 12V increments, with 24V, 36V, and 48V being most common, and 72V used on occasion. Battery chargers are usually only stocked for these voltages as well.

To determine how much power you need, you’ll need to determine the voltage you want and the capacity you need to supply that power (voltage times current). Read this article to learn more about calculating your ebike’s power: http://www.ebikeschool.com/myth-ebike-wattage/

2) Try measuring the voltage of the battery while you plug it in and attempt to power the bike. If you see the voltage drop instantly when you turn on the bike, you’ll know you’ve likely got an issue with weak cells or a poor connection that causes a voltage sag issue.

Since you mentioned the charger, the link you sent me came with a 2 amp charger but it would take 10 hours to charge that size battery. Could I use a larger amp charger like 5 or even more for faster charging? How do you tell what is too much so you don’t damage the battery? Thanks!!

Lithium batteries are not 100% fire-safe. Some batteries are more dangerous than others, depending on the chemistry, whether it has BMS or not, and what kind of casing the battery is in. If the battery is cased in metal its less likely to burn your garage down, than if its encased in plastic. Also be aware that all BMS’s are not alike, some are good and others are crap, just like anything else in life.

Once I’ve got all the cells I need checked out and ensured they have matching voltages, I like to arrange them on my work surface in the orientation of the intended pack. This gives me one final check to make sure the orientation will work as planned, and a chance to see the real-life size of the pack, minus a little bit of padding and heat shrink wrap.

Nominal capacity: 12Ah (Fully charged after 0.5C discharge to 38V capacity). Cycle life: Standard charge and fast discharge cycle 500 times, the capacity will notless than 60% of the nominal capacity.

If you are concerned about the speed and power of an electric bike, pay attention to the motor size. Electric motor size is measured in watts and usually ranges between 250 and 750. When deciding on the appropriate amount of wattage, think about factors like the weight of the rider and the desired speed and terrain for the bike. If your child will mostly be on a flat surface, lower wattage should suffice; if they are planning to ride up and down hills, look for a bike with a larger motor.

As far as dimensions, I prefer to use 0.1 or 0.15 mm thick nickel, and usually use a 7 or 8 mm wide strip. A stronger welder can do thicker strip, but will cost a lot more. If your welder can do 0.15 mm nickel strip then go for it; thicker is always better. If you have thinner strips then that’s fine too, just lay down a couple layers on top of each other when necessary to create connections that can carry more current.

Lay your nickel strip on top of the three cells, ensuring that it covers all three terminals. Turn your welder on and adjust the current to a fairly low setting (if it’s your first time using the welder). Perform a test weld by placing the battery cells and copper strip below the probes and lifting up until the welding arms raise high enough to initiate the weld.

I’m a little worried that your batteries aren’t what you think they are. If they really are AA sized, which is rare in the lithium battery world, then they are not 3,000 mAh. Next, 10 cells in series is going to give you 36V, which is twice what your 18V drill is rated for. 5 cells in series and 2 in parallel would be a better method. I usually recommend a BMS but you can skip it if you have another way of diligently monitoring your cell voltages and then charging using an RC style balance charger like an iMaxB6 charger through an JST-XH connector.

Gotcha. Can you recommend a manufacturer that sells a two wire version? Maybe I can look around their products and see if they sell any 7S cells, rather than sifting through all the manufacturers on Alibaba. Searches for “2 wire MBS” didn’t yield much. Thanks again for your help with this!

Rechargeable Electric Bicycle Batteries 48V 20AH Lithium Ion Battery. These are 18650 cell based batteries (similar 18650 type cells are used in the Tesla car). Use it for ebike, scooter etrikes. Batt…

However… I’m thinking about extending the range of my 250W ebike (a Greenedge CS2) by wiring a battery in parallel as a one-off project. My thinking is that as it would halve the load on each of the batteries, it would reduce output current and voltage drop under load. This I’m thinking would allow use of a simpler constructions, since the stress on each cell would be reduced.

“battery bike -scooter battery 48v”

If you want to step up a notch on the quality ladder, here is another good charger that I prefer even more, though it’s a bit more expensive: http://usebikeparts.com of problems with quality and weight, lead acid batteries are not common in the rest of the world. In Europe, for example, acid lead batteries represent less then one per cent of the total; while 96.5 per cent is taken by Li-Ion and two per cent by LiPo (source: Greenfinder market report).

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The answer is that, unless you are seriously budget or weight constrained, this would probably be a bad battery investment. It might fit the bill initially for your commuting needs, but then it doesn’t really leave any reserve if you need to run some errands on the way home, or forget to charge it up one night etc. Even worse, as the battery ages over time the capacity drops. After a year your 8Ah battery is now only 7Ah, it’s only barely able to do your daily commute, and the next year when it is just 6Ah you now need to carry the charger with you and top it up at work every day.

More than likely this problem is BMS related. The BMS usually trips in that scenario for one of two reasons: 1) The load pulled by the controller is too high for that BMS, or 2) one or more cells are weak or damaged and when the load is applied strongly, it causes the voltage of that parallel group to drop below the LVC of the BMS.

Make sure to consult the wiring diagram for your BMS, because some BMS’s have one more sense wire than cells (for example, 11 sense wires for a 10S pack). On these packs, the first wire will go on the negative terminal of the first parallel group, with all the rest of the wires going on the positive terminal of each successive parallel group. My BMS only has 10 sense wires though, so each will go on the positive terminal of the parallel groups.

You can also add a label or other information to the outside of your pack for that professional look. If nothing else, it’s a good idea to at least write on the pack what the voltage and capacity is. Especially if you make multiple custom batteries, that will ensure you never forget what the correct charge voltage for the pack is.

I understand that the Ebay battery may run low, but as it is running in parallel to the “Whale”, I’ simply use the “Whale” LED display as rough guid to both batteries charge state (assuming I fully charge both batteries each time before I ride).

Lead acid batteries are much larger and heavier than lithium batteries, limiting their placement on ebikes. They almost never come packaged with ebike specific mounting hardware which means that they generally have to go in a bag on the rear rack or in panniers on either side if the rear wheel. Mounting them up high on the rack isn’t a good idea either because it will negatively affect handling. Generally speaking, you want to mount your batteries as low as possible to keep the center of gravity of the ebike lower towards the ground. This will significantly improve your ebike’s handling.

I want to take the apart and use the cells to make a 48V 16.8ah battery. Would you advice against this? Would 48V provide a noticeable difference in the power of my motor? (It is a 500W Falco Direct Drive Hub Motor)

Then I took the sense wire labeled B1 and soldered it to the positive terminal of the first parallel group (which also happens to be the same as the negative terminal of the second parallel group, as they are connected together with nickel strip).

Specifically, battery packs are made up from many cells: the lead acid ones are similar to those we use on our cars, while the lithium ones use the same technology as mobile phones. Apart from the chemical component inside their cells, the main feature that differentiates lead acid and lithium batteries is their size: the lead ones are heavy and have a short life (200 to 300 charge cycles), while the lithium ones are smaller and can last longer (from 500 to 1,000 charge cycles).

Lithium chemistry is considerably more expensive than the “old school” lead acid chemistry. If you are buying a battery pack or a bike that already has a battery pack, be familiar with the chemistry that you’re buying. For example, its hard to find a good e-bike for under a thousand dollars with a decent-sized lithium pack. Lithium is pricey. Be realistic in your expectations when e-bike shopping on how much the electric bike will cost compared to what kind of range, performance, and life expectancy you will get out of a lithium battery pack.

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100~240VAC Universal AC input Full range LiFePO4/Lithium Ion/Lead Acid 4000W Battery Charger Two S2500 model in parallel. Power:4000Watts; Protection function: / Overload / Over voltage / Over temperature / Over current / Reverse polarity / Power off or trickle after finished charging; 2 years warranty

LiPo’s are the smallest, cheapest, lightest and most powerful lithium batteries. Their disadvantages include short lifespan and propensity to combust into giant fireballs if not cared for correctly (I’m not kidding, check out the short video clip below).

Oh, one last thing. If you have a poorly formed connector or the wires are fraying, that can increase resistance and cause a voltage drop that might trip a cutoff condition. Just another thing to check for.

Yea lead acid is a great way to cheaply get into ebikes and test new motor/controller combinations. Keep in mind though that your performance will increase when you switch to lithium. It’s easy to do though, as the bike doesn’t care what chemistry it receives, it just sees volts and amps. Good luck!

You too can find a metal box to store your batteries in while riding and charging.  Here is an example of a custom built metal box that holds six hobby king packs perfectly (make certain to add a vent so pressure does not build up if a pack goes into flames!):

Do you think it is the BMS or the controller that is cutting out beyond a certain load or something else completely? As far as I am aware the battery is fully charged and balanced (I even left it charging for 2 days once as I read that it can sometimes take this long to balance the cells!).

Test the voltage of each cell to make sure that they are all identical. If your cells came straight from the factory, they shouldn’t vary by more than a few percentage points from one to the next. They will likely fall in the range of 3.6-3.8 volts per cell as most factories ship their cells partially discharged to extend their shelf lives.

“The secret of NMC lies in combining nickel and manganese. An analogy of this is table salt, in which the main ingredients of sodium and chloride are toxic on their own but mixing them serves as seasoning salt and food preserver. Nickel is known for its high specific energy but low stability; manganese has the benefit of forming a spinel structure to achieve very low internal resistance but offers a low specific energy.

12V increments are easier to do with LiFePO4 due to the 3.2V per cell. So for 12V, 24V, 36V and 48V they go 4 cells, 8 cells, 12 cells and 16 cells. Li-ion is more annoying because the 3.7V per cell doesn’t play as nicely. The general convention for the same 12V increments is 3 cells, 7 cells, 10 cells, and 13 or 14 cells. 3 cells is just a bit low for a 12V system (about 11V nominal) but will work for most applications until the voltage drops to about 9.5 or 10V depending on your device’s cutoffs. Regarding the balancing issue, if you’re using those packs that claim to remain in balance then I’d imagine you can just trust them. If their packs had problems with balance then they’d probably be having tons of returns. Worst come to worst you can occasionally open the case and measure the cells to make sure they are all staying balanced. One word of advice: be very careful with the series/parallel switch setup. If you make a mistake or the switch melts you could end up shorting your batteries and ruin the whole lot…

Thank for the great article. I made battery packs already, do you have any recommendations on chargers. I have a 53 volt pack 30 amp hr. I don’t know what charger to buy, and I’m worried as lithium batteries tend to blow up if not handled correctly.

Now take your trip distance, multiply it by the appropriate watt-hours/km from the table above, and you’ll get the total minimum watt-hours required for the trip. Take the watt-hours you’ve estimated and divide it by the voltage, and you now have an estimate on the minimum amp-hours you’ll need from the pack.

Of course, if you go really fast or are pulling an extra load, then this mileage will be worse, like 12-15 wh/km. On the other hand, if you use the motor more sparingly, then you can easily stretch it down to 6-8 wh/km. The table below summarizes the expected range for these different batteries under light, average, and heavy usage paradigms:

“motorized scooter battery |lithium bike”

If you are using 2.5AH cells then yes, it will be 5AH with a 2p configuration. If you use cells with higher capacity, like Sanyo GA cells that are 3.5AH, then you’ll have a 7AH pack with only 2p. Make sure your cells can handle the current that your electric scooter (and namely the controller) will try to draw from it.

I should really change that $2 cutoff to more like $2.50, which is more reasonable for quality cells. Basically, the cheapest ‘good’ cells are Samsung 26F cells, which can be had for usually around $2.50 – $2.90 if you are buying in any large quantity, like at least 100. Expect to pay more like $3.00 or so if you’re buying only 40 cells. 26F cells are also limited to 5A discharge though, so you’ve got the same issue as with the NCR18650B cells from Panasonic.

C values seem to be as much about cell packaging as chemistry for LiFePo/LiMn/LiNiCoMn Pouch and prismatic cells with high AHr per cell tend to have a C value of about 1 to 1.5. So cheap packs both cased and shrink wrapped batteries for electric scooters canada from suppliers like Ping seem to be like this. Cylindrical cells from A123 or Headway tend to have C values of 3C to 5C upwards. And for a fully built pack, C is as much about cells in parallel as anything. eg 10s2p having twice the C of 10s1p Again BMSBattery/GreenBikeKit are now selling LiFePo Headway based packs with a BMS and with C values of 3C to 5C and either cased or shrinkwrap.

I then took my second sense wire (or your third sense wire if you have one more sense wires than parallel groups) and soldered it to the positive terminal of the second parallel group. Again, note that I’m soldering this wire to the nickel in between cells to avoid heating any cell directly.

I did not intend for the timeline to reflect anything other than what I recall seeing as E-bike battery packs. Some chemistries have been around a long time before they were used by a significant number of E-bikers.

Lipo batteries are currently the “hottest” battery choice for electric bike enthusiasts. LiPo batteries are the most power-dense type of  battery available to electric bike riders today. The problem is that LiPo battery packs for e-bikes are hard to find, especially one with high output if you are building a racing bike for riding off road.

Sorry if this has been asked already but there are a ton of comments to wade through. Ten individual 18650 cells in series at a nominal voltage of 3.6 Volts would give me 36 volts. Assuming they are 2500 mAh a piece, then if I put 4 of these 10 cell in series packs together in parallel I would have a 10 Amp Hour battery correct? The same applies if I were to wire a pack together with 10 “4p” cells together in series. I’m trying to determine what the benefit of 10s4p over I guess what would be “4s10p”.

There is some research into 18650 packs that use pressure connectors like in a remote control but most results aren’t impressive yet. It’s difficult to get a good enough connection to deliver high enough power for ebike applications. The ones that are close to working use custom designed enclosures. Don’t attempt to do it with off-the-shelf 18650 holders with spring contacts — you’ll melt them in no time.

11. Disputes: THIS SWEEPSTAKES IS GOVERNED BY THE LAWS OF United States AND PA, WITHOUT RESPECT TO CONFLICT OF LAW DOCTRINES. As a condition of participating in this Sweepstakes, participant agrees that any and all disputes which cannot be resolved between the parties, and causes of action arising out of or connected with this Sweepstakes, shall be resolved individually, without resort to any form of class action, exclusively before a court located in PA having jurisdiction. Further, in any such dispute, under no circumstances will participant be permitted to obtain awards for, and hereby waives all rights to claim punitive, incidental, or consequential damages, including reasonable attorneys’ fees, other than participant’s actual out-of-pocket expenses (i.e. costs associated with entering this Sweepstakes), and participant further waives all rights to have damages multiplied or increased.

The most noteworthy battery supplier is based in the USA and is offering lithium packs based on high quality cells.  A new vendor in 2015 is Lunacycle.com , so…check them out for a multitude of different packs at a very reasonable price.

This page is embarrassingly old, referencing chemistries that are completely obsolete, and is due for a rewrite. In the meantime, we recommend checking out our Battery Kits Product Info page for a more current explanation on lithium specific battery packs.

This is a very simple layout where each column of 3 cells is connected in parallel and then the 10 columns are connected across in series from left to right. The BMS board is shown at the far right end of the pack. You’ll see how the pack represented in the drawing will come together in real life shortly.

Thank you for the very informative post, and it has helped a lot. I plan on building a battery pack with 20 cells with blocks of 4 in parallel, and then I am going to put those in series to make an 18.5V, 13.6A pack. Sorry if these sounds a little bit foolish, but I am not sure what kind of BMS I should be using. Would I be able to use any BMS or would there be an issue with having extra wires if the BMS can power more batteries in series?

If those are new cells then I’m surprised that the voltages aren’t identical. That difference (0.08V) is about the farthest difference I’d want to see between cells. Ideally you should charge that 3.82V cell up a bit more before you connect it in parallel with the others. I’d run tests on all of those cells though with a capacity tester to ensure they are good quality cells though. Genuine cells straight from the factory should all have identical voltages.

Thank for the great article. I made battery packs already, do you have any recommendations on chargers. I have a 53 volt pack 30 amp hr. I don’t know what charger to buy, and I’m worried as lithium batteries tend to blow up if not handled correctly.

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40% grade hills? That’s huge! You’ll definitely want a cell that can perform at high current since you’ll be pulling peak power from those cells to get up those big hills. Something like the Samsung 25R would be a good choice for this application.

I don’t know what you mean by saying your battery is 36W, batteries can’t be measured in watts. The only way to know what power your bike needs is to multiply battery voltage by controller current. If you can’t find a marking on your controller that says what its peak current is, you’d have to measure it with an ammeter, like a clamp on DC ammeter that can measure around the battery wire.

If any one battery cell varies significantly from the others, do NOT connect it to the other cells. Paralleling two or more cells of different voltages will cause an instantaneous and massive current flow in the direction of the lower voltage cell(s). This can damage the cells and even result in fire on rare occasions. Either individually charge or discharge the cell to match the others, or more likely, just don’t use it in your pack at all. The reason for the voltage difference could have something to do with an issue in the cell, and you don’t want a bad cell in your pack.

That is definitely possible, but keep in mind that the 10 modules you want to connect in series will only need one wire between them. You don’t need to connect the negative and positive of each to the next – you only need a wire from the positive of module 1 to the negative of module 2, then a wire from the positive of module 2 to the negative of module 3 and so on.

Just completed the pipeline challenge 600km of grueling maintenance trail. plenty of sand, rocks pea gravel, some road stages. Running an 8T MAC in a 29ER with 2x 29E EM3ev triangle ebike battery packs (one borrowed from Kai in review above!) managed 99kms on a single charge using …

Regarding that welder, I’ve used it on a 20A circuit but I don’t own it (it belongs to a friend of mine) so I can’t give you the best firsthand experience as I’ve only used it at his place on a 20A circuit. My welders, which are similar but a slightly earlier model, are run on a 20A circuit at my home. I live in Israel and we have 220V wiring at home like in Europe, so I can’t tell you for sure how it will work on 110V. If there is the option of running it off 220V in your garage or laundry room, that could be another option, but I’ve heard of people running on 110V in the US without problems so I can’t say for sure. Sorry I’m not more help on that front.

With a budget in mind, here is a 36V charger (output 42V, exactly what a 36V li-ion pack needs) that I have used and found to be a good budget charger. It’s not super fast, at only 2A, but for just $20 shipped, it’s a great deal. You might have to wait about 3 weeks for it arrive from China though. http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-240VAC-42VDC-2-0A-Lithium-LiPo-Battery-Charger-E-Bike-charger-suitable-for-10S-36V/559929087.html

I have come to the conclusion that a 48v battery would probabky be sufficent for my needs. I need to ride continuously for at least 7-8 hours–but prefer up to 10 hours– at 15-20mph everyday. Although I also need a top speed of 30mph, at times. If my math is right, in order to accomplish this I need to build at least a 14s8p battery. After running these specs through a simulator I found that the power starts to drop at about 1150 watts and 20mph.

Capacity: 30Ah. output: 71.4V 5A. Lifecycle of single cell: >85% capacity after 700 cycles, > 70% capacity after 800 cycles. (<1C discharge rate and <1C charge rate). Lifecycle: > 85% capacity after 5…

NCA…LiNiCoAl / Lithium Nickel Cobalt Aluminum (sometimes called NCR) The battery chemistry research industry is still driven by the HUGE global sales of laptop computers, cellphones, and cordless tools. Mass production has made the 18650 format the best cost per volume cell. The 18650 number means that it is 18mm in diameter, 65mm long, and the zero means it is a cylinder instead of a flat foil packet. (the 18650 is roughly the size of an adult male thumb) [edit: in 2014, Tesla electric cars are now using Panasonic NCA batteries]

I purchased the 220v welder, which obviously was intended to run on non-US half of a phase 220v, Of course we have full single phase 220v, so could you supply me with a hint on how to wire the unit for US 220 v.

The chain is a very important bicycle part. It is responsible for turning the wheel when a cyclist pedals the bike. Problems with the chain create major riding problems. Chains commonly get dry or rusty,…

2) Try measuring the voltage of the battery while you plug it in and attempt to power the bike. If you see the voltage drop instantly when you turn on the bike, you’ll know you’ve likely got an issue with weak cells or a poor connection that causes a voltage sag issue.

Do you by any chance have some spare parts you can swap in? A spare controller would you let you know if the controller is faulty and tripping early. Another battery would show you if the problem was battery related.

When comparing between battery chemistries, one of the most relevant metrics is the Energy Density in watt-hrs / kg. This figure says how heavy a battery pack will have to be to achieve a certain range. For Lead Acid it is 20-30 whrs/kg, for NiCad it is 35-40 whrs/kg, NiMH is 50-60 whrs/kg, Li-ion is ~110 whrs/kg, and Li-Polymer is up to 160 whrs / kg. Knowing these values makes it easy to project the weight of a pack without having to look up data from the manufacturer.

This is by far the most common lithium-ion chemistry used in electric bicycles. It is somewhat heavier than lithium polymer and the lithium-cobalt packs that are usually used laptops and consumer electronics, but is also safer. Most of the lithium manganese packs we have dealt with use rectangular steel canned cells and have good discharge capabilities. This chemistry holds its voltage better over the course of the battery discharge than Lithium Polymer, which tends to have a linearly declining voltage from 4.2 to 2.9 volts/cell during the course of the discharge, leading to a ebike that starts off feeling peppy and finishes feeling lethargic.

The main limitation of those holders is power – they can’t handle it. For a few amps, they might be fine, but ebikes require dozens of amps, which would surely melt those guys. Think about it this way: professional ebike batteries have big hunks of nickel plate welded between cells. The tiny little spring contacts of those holders will never compare to that kind of current carrying ability.

Capacity: 20Ah. 36V 3A Charger. Lifecycle of single cell: >85% capacity after 1500 cycles, > 70% capacity after 3000 cycles. (<1C discharge rate and <1C charge rate). It will take about 7 hours to cha... You will find here all Li-Ion/LiFePO4 EBike battery packs and cells, battery management system(BMS). This category includes 12V~72V Li-Ion/LiFePO4 EBike battery packs and cells, EBike bottle battery, high power battery and high C-Rate cells, 4~24 cells in series Li-Ion/LiFePO4 bleeding balancing BMS and 5~13s smart BMS. Thank you for the very informative post, and it has helped a lot. I plan on building a battery pack with 20 cells with blocks of 4 in parallel, and then I am going to put those in series to make an 18.5V, 13.6A pack. Sorry if these sounds a little bit foolish, but I am not sure what kind of BMS I should be using. Would I be able to use any BMS or would there be an issue with having extra wires if the BMS can power more batteries in series? A High-performance Motor acheives a top speed of 20-30km/h with a range of 20km means your ebike commute just got easier. Folding style, portable convenient, easy storage. You can lock your bike by ap... When choosing a battery for your bike, not only is the weight important but the volume is also important. You want your pack as small as possible so its easy to stow and easy to hide. So therefore you should consider you battery’s volume, not just its weight. For sure you need to go with a lithium chemistry and not an old school heavy and large Sealed Lead Acid (SLA) or Nickel-Metal Hydride (NiMH) chemistry. If you want to learn more in-depth about building your own lithium battery, you'll want to check out my book "DIY Lithium Batteries: How To Build Your Own Battery Packs" which is an Amazon #1 Bestseller in multiple categories! Grew up in Los Angeles California, US Navy submarine mechanic from 1977-81/SanDiego. Hydraulic mechanic in the 1980's/Los Angeles. Heavy equipment operator in the 1990's/traveled to various locations. Dump truck driver in the 2000's/SW Utah. Currently a water plant operator since 2010/NW Kansas Electric bikes in the UK tend to come with either Lithium Ion (Li-Ion) or Lithium Polymer (LiPo) batteries. In China, on the other hand, lead acid batteries are still the most common ones used. In 2014 – according to the China Bicycle Association / IdTechEx  – 35 million eBikes were sold on the Chinese market, and just 2.8 million of them had lithium battery. Next, plan out your cell configuration on your computer or even with a pencil and paper. This will help ensure you are laying out your pack correctly and show you the final dimensions of the pack. In my top-down drawing below I’ve designated the positive end of the cells in red and the negative end of the cells in white. 36v 10Ah Bottle Type Battery. Rated capacity: 10Ah. 36v 14Ah Rear Rack Type Battery. Rated capacity: 14Ah. 48V 14Ah Rear Rack Type Battery. Recommended to be used with 36V 250W electric bicycle motor. Here at Grin we've been dealing with ebike batteries for a very long time during which we've offered over 100 variants of NiCad, NiMH, LiFePO4, LiPo, and Lithium-Ion packs in all kinds of voltages, geometries, and capacities. It's been a love/hate relationship over those years, but the more recent mass production of 18650 lithium cells for high power consumer goods like power tools has shifted things to the love side, with ebike batteries that are cheaper, lighter, and with far longer life span than we could have ever wished for in the past. We're happy to stock both frame mount and rear rack mounted batteries from 98 watt-hours to 1100 watt-hours in size to suite the needs of most electric bicycle conversions.  I finished an ebike yesterday, but i found some major problems on it, The problem is while i riding the bike by throttling, some times the display light dims and low battery voltage caution icon is displaying in the display. and than display shutting off. after that if i try to turn it on again it wont work, so i removed the battery from controller and installed it again than works perfectly, it happens always so i want to remove and install battery again and again, so what is this problem, is this problem is in battery or controller?? Please give me a solution. You told us what you wanted and now we're delivering it. ShippingPass is our new subscription program designed to bring you unlimited 2-day free shipping for one year with no minimum order. Get what you need ― fast! For any other case, lithium batteries’ advantages greatly outweigh SLAs. Of course, for your specific ebike you might have http://huntnbike.com reasons that could sway you either way. At the end of the day, your ebike is all about you. I hope this information helps you make the right choice for your own battery needs. [redirect url='http://bestelectricbikebattery.com//bump' sec='7']

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Some of the NMC sellers are advertising their chemistry as 5C, but real-world use by E-bike builders has them calling NMC a solid reliable 3C chemistry, which can provide a continuous 30A from an affordable and compact 10-Ah battery (temporary peak amp-draws can be higher, as it is with any of these chemistries). This may sound only as good as the most recent LiFePO4, but NMC is smaller, and is not as fussy about keeping the individual cells balanced.

Common lithium cobalt oxide (LiCoO2) batteries can catch fire or explode during loading and even when just stored. The safety depends on user precautions and the quality of the Battery Management System (BMS).

LiFePO4/Lithium Ion/Lead Acid 120W Battery EBike Charger. 12V6A,24V3A,36V2.5A,48V2A;  Li-Ion Battery Charge Voltage = 4.2V x the number of cells in series; LiFePO4 Battery Charge Voltage = 3.55V x the number of cells in series.

Hi Micah,I am from INDIA want to construct a 36v,15 ah,peak current 15 amp,continuous current 6 to 8 amps. Now ipurchased 20 pcs new IFR 18650 lifepo4 rechargeable cells,and a BMS36v,lifepo4 BMS12s forE.Bike lithium battery pack 12s,36,v,PCm.How many cells total i have to use for my aim?What kind of charger (specification) i have to purchase? Your article and reply to questions are interesting.please guide me.

Hi I need help! I am building my own battery pack from old laptop batteries (18650’s). I bought the cheep $250 48v 1000w ebike conversion kit on ebay. I have many questions! It seems the perfect number of cells to connect in series are 13! This is a big problem for me because I am cheep and I already bought the Imax B6 battery balancer charger. I also bought 7x 6s balancer leads and 5x 4s leads. The Imax has a max charge voltage of 22.2v (so it sais in the manual), and a max balance of 6 cells at once. I also bought the parallel balance charging board. I don’t want to charge two or three packs at once to just have to turn around and charge one separately. So now I’m faced with the decision of making a 12 series battery or a 15 series battery (I will buy 5s leads in this case). The problem is with the 12 series battery the nominal voltage is only 43.2. Or a 15 series battery with a nominal voltage of 54. Which I’m pretty sure is a big no no because the controller is only meant to handle 48v within reason (13s max charge voltage of 53.3 and 12s 49.2 at 4.1 v per cell). But if I make it a 12s, running around most of the trip at 44v, will this drain the Amps faster because the motor wants 48v? I’m thinking no but just wanted some confirmation on that and if the controller can handle more volts. I could make a 15 series batter and just charge to 3.6 or 3.7 volts. Is this hard on the cells?

If not possible, try charging them individually. Some of them might come back but others might be dead. The tricky thing is that they will likely not be able to deliver their full capacity anymore and the actual capacity will likely vary from cell to cell. Two year old cells at a very low voltage are quite a gamble.

Eric has been involved in the electric bike industry since 2002 when he started a 6000 square foot brick and mortar Electric Bike store in downtown San Francisco. He is a true believer that small electric vehicles can change the way we operate and the way we think.

2. Lithium-Ion Shrink Wrapped Shrink Wrapped Lithium-Ion Batteries are housed in a soft PVC heatshrink material. It protects the battery from moisture and short-circuits, but not from being dropped or punctured. View Shrink Wrapped Lithium E-Bike Batteries

HERE ARE 99 GENIUNE LG LGABB41865 18650 2600MAH CELLS. THEY ARE IN MODEM BATTERIES, JUST NEED A FLAT SCREW DRIVER AND PRY THE CASE AT THE SEAM. THEY ARE IN 12V (3S1P) SET UP ALREADY SO YOU CAN SAVE A …

I would like to know what input http://electricbikebatterycharger.com terms of voltage and current i should provide to my battery of 36V 8.7AH. And also how the calculation goes if i want to build a battery for some other Voltage and current specification ?

One term you will frequently come across is the ‘C’ rate of a battery pack. This is a way of normalizing the performance characteristics so that batteries of different capacity are compared on equal terms. Suppose you have an 8 amp-hour pack. Then 1C would be is 8 amps, 2C would be 16 amps, 0.25C would be 2 amps etc. A higher ‘C’ rate of discharge is more demanding on the cells, and often requires specialty high rate batteries.

Edit: if this article was helpful, you may like our newer article on the latest NCM/NCA battery chemistries, and also our article on high-performance batteries that are NOT made from LiPo. If you have narrowed your battery choice down to LiFePO4, make sure to check out Dogmans expert guide to LiFePO4 batteries.

LiPo packs that are homebuilt (without a BMS) can be extremely dangerous if you do not approach your battery with a lot of knowledge and care. Be sure to research extensively before building such a pack. Many E-bikers construct packs with no BMS using Turnigy/Zippy packs, acquired cheaply online through the Hobby King company which is based in China.  For those who risk running their batteries without BMS they still use sophisticated chargers to balance their packs and constantly monitor the health of their cells.

To calculate the max amps the battery can deliver, you have to know the max amps of the cells you used. For example, Panasonic 18650pf cells can deliver 10A continuous, and I used 3 cells in series in this battery, so the battery can deliver 3 x 10A = 30A. However, you also need to know how much current the BMS can deliver. If I put a 15A continous BMS on this pack then that would be the “weakest link” so to speak, meaning the pack with the BMS could only deliver 15A continuous.

Yes, you can upgrade a GIO PB710 with a lithium battery. You just want to make sure your battery is the same voltage as the original lead acid battery and that it can handle the current demanded by the bike’s controller.

Linear packing, on the other hand, will result in a narrower pack that ends up a bit longer than offset packing. Some people say offset packing is more efficient because you can fit more cells in a smaller area by taking advantage of the space between cells. However, offset packing creates wasted space on the ends of parallel group rows where gaps form between the edge of the pack and the ‘shorter’ rows. The larger the battery pack, the less wasted space is taken up compared to the overall pack size, but the difference is negligible for most packs. For my battery, I decided to go with offset packing to make the pack shorter and fit easier into a small triangle bag.

All the help and knowledge I’ve provided here on EbikeSchool.com is 100% free, and I try to assist readers as much as possible in the comments section of each article. If you want to support this site and help me keep it free (and ad free), consider checking out my ebook and video course on building ebikes.

The only thing left to do at this point is to add the connectors, unless you did that before you soldered the wires on, which I actually recommend doing. But of course I didn’t do that, so I added them at this step, being careful not to short them by connecting only one wire at a time.

Small hard-cased A123 cells (about the size of a “C” battery) have been salvaged out of power drill packs, car battery packs etc, and have made it into the hands of e-bike DIYers who solder them together in series and in parallel to construct a pack big enough and powerful enough to power an e-bike.

Lithium batteries are also small enough to allow you to place your batteries pretty much anywhere on your bike. This is especially true for people who want to assemble their own pack or use heat shrink wrapped lithium batteries instead of hard case lithium batteries with prefabricated bicycle frame mounts. This can help spread the weight around or hide the batteries to make a stealthier bike.

The battery maximum power = volts x amps, so if this 36V battery can deliver 30A continuous, that means it can deliver a maximum of 1,080 watts, though I would run it conservatively at a lower power level than that in most applications.

First thing is regarding the cells – I have just order some Panasonic 18650PF like yours by chance (I was looking for Samsung). The delivered cells were made and charged in 2014, and the measured voltage now is around 3V (+/- 0.1v). So the voltage is basically the same for all of them but there are old, I think, even thaw never used and stored in a warehouse.

Furthermore, if you have more capacity than required, then you also have the opportunity to do partial charging of the battery with a Satiator or similar device, so that instead of charging the pack to 100% to squeeze out every km, your standard charge is set to a lower 80 or 90% level. This can have a pronounced effect increasing  both the cycle life and calendar life of a lithium battery by several fold. 

If you don’t find that, there’s still a chance that it’s the problem, and that the cells simply rose up to a higher voltage and matched the others again once the load disappeared. But it also may be that the load is too high for the BMS. Do you have a cycle analyst? You could slowly increase the throttle and watch how much current you are drawing until the point of cutoff. If it’s well below 40A then you’ll know it’s not a high current cutoff.

There is a recently introduced battery chemistry that we will likely be seeing a lot of soon. Lithium-Nickel-Manganese-Cobalt-Oxide, or LiNiMnCoO2/NMC. Since Asian battery manufacturers have been working on a wide variety of alternative chemistries, a manufacturer standards group has chosen the  abbreviation NMC for this chemistry (although one wholesaler stubbornly calls it NCM).

Well, I’ve finally built a pack, which in the end turned out to be a 16s6p/7p made from recycled dead laptop batteries, charging to 67.2V and has a secondary offtake for a controller on the 13s positive (i.e. to route 16s to the FETs and 13s to the control circuit). Some of the groups were OK for 12Ah from 6 cells, others needed 7 cells; I just used what I had and as I got the laptop batteries for free, it was better for me spend the time testing them than to use 80 new cells, which would have been quite expensive.

Nickel Metal Hydride batteries are about 20% lighter and 30% less voluminous than a NiCd pack of the same capacity. They have similar discharge and charge characteristics, but because of the higher energy density they are available in higher capacities than NiCd packs. Because NiMH is safe for disposal in the landfill while Nickle Cadmium is not, the metal hydride has almost completely replaced cadmium in most consumer batteries.

Lithium Ion electric bike batteries are ideal for those that plan to ride longer distances and or more frequent trips. The commuters dream battery, lithium batteries can stand two complete 100% discharges a day for years. Discharging the battery half way riding to work or school, then parking all day at half charge does no damage to a lithium electric bike battery. So the urgency to recharge immediately is not like SLA’s. Since discharging to 100% empty does not significantly harm lithium electric bike batteries, the usable range of the lithium electric bike battery is roughly double that of SLA’s. In typical electric bike use, Li-Ion batteries last from two to four years. Proper storage of Lithium Ion batteries is important when the electric bike will not be used for more than a few weeks. Unplug the battery from the electric bike, charge fully, and then store in a cool but not frozen, dry place.

When you buy your battery, make sure you know what its maximum amp output is. Remember, by multiplying amps and voltage you get the actual current capacity of the battery. For example a 48-volt 25 amp pack can put out 1200 watts.

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One other disadvantage of lithium batteries that isn’t talked about often, but should be, is their potential for theft. Lithium ebike batteries have become huge targets by bike thieves as a result of their combination of small size and high price tags (the same factors that keep shaving razor cartridges behind lock and key at the drug store). Thieves see an easy target and ample resale market, meaning you have to be extra careful about locking your ebike up and leaving it alone in public.

When comparing between battery chemistries, one of the most relevant metrics is the Energy Density in watt-hrs / kg. This figure says how heavy a battery pack will have to be to achieve a certain range. For Lead Acid it is 20-30 whrs/kg, for NiCad it is 35-40 whrs/kg, NiMH is 50-60 whrs/kg, Li-ion is ~110 whrs/kg, and Li-Polymer is up to 160 whrs / kg. Knowing these values makes it easy to project the weight of a pack without having to look up data from the manufacturer.

I would not recommend trying to use a 36V charger. The voltage will be way too high and damage either the charger, battery, BMS or all three. Always use a charger that is matched to your pack’s actual charge voltage, which in your case is 22.2V DC.

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Charge voltage for li-ion cells is 4.2V per cell maximum. So for a 36V 10s battery you’d want to charge it to a maximum of 42V. Charging slightly lower will increase the life of the battery, but isn’t a requirement.

Now you have the required specs on the pack, namely its voltage and capacity, so it’s a matter of finding one that meets your budget and weight restrictions. To a first order, for a given voltage and capacity, NiCad will cost twice as much as lead acid but come in at half the weight, NiMH will be 30% lighter and more expensive than NiCad, and lithium will be twice the cost of NiMH and a further half the weight again.

Nickel Cadmium was the old standard for rechargeable consumer cells in the familiar AA, C, 9V series. They are known for robust characteristics, a good cycle life, and high discharge capabilities. They are still widely used http://usebikeparts.com cordless power tools, R/C toys and similar applications that demand large currents, but for nearly everything else NiCad’s have been replaced by NiMH and Lithiums.

Whether you’re shopping for a turn-key commercially available electric bike, or trying to find or build a good battery for an e-bike conversion, being able to find the right battery for an electric bike is a difficult task.  The right battery pack is the most difficult part of the e-bike equation. Keep in mind that even if you’re buying a turn-key electric bike, the lithium battery is more than likely the most expensive component in it, and…not all lithium batteries are created equal, so you should know what you are getting before you buy the ebike.

Why does this formula work? Think about it: heat shrink (unless stated otherwise) usually has a 2:1 shrink ratio, so if I need something with less than twice the circumference (or perimeter rather, since my pack isn’t really a circle) of my pack. Since large diameter heat shrink is quoted in half circumference (flat width) sizes, and I want heat shrink with a circumference of a bit more than the perimeter of my pack, then I know I need the half circumference size to be a bit more than half of my pack’s perimeter, which is equal to the height plus the width of my pack.

It was an interesting project to say the least, particularly how to link the Ch- and the P- from the BMS taking its B- from the 7s negative termination to the positive of the 6s group, given that there are two routes (i.e. charging and discharging), so connecting both simultaneously would override the function of the BMS.

To answer your question, you can definitely build your own auxiliary battery. It looks like they used a fancy right angled female XLR connector, but I imagine a standard female XLR connector will fit just as well. I’m not sure if you’ll be voiding your warranty though by connecting your own battery. Those XLR connectors can be purchased all over ebay and probably even at your local electronics shop.

I have come to the conclusion that a 48v battery would probabky be sufficent for my needs. I need to ride continuously for at least 7-8 hours–but prefer up to 10 hours– at 15-20mph everyday. Although I also need a top speed of 30mph, at times. If my math is right, in order to accomplish this I need to build at least a 14s8p battery. After running these specs through a simulator I found that the power starts to drop at about 1150 watts and 20mph.

So I’m going to first use a wider (285 mm to be exact) but shorter piece of shrink wrap to go around the long direction of the pack. That will seal the ends first, and then I can go back with my long and skinny piece of heat shrink to do the length of the pack.

The Powerful 350W Brusless Motor Has Excellent Power To Reach Speeds Up To 12.5MPH And On Hills It Gives You The Power To Easily Reach The Top. Power: 350W. Turning e-Bike riders into explorers and ad…

I’ve gotten so many different BMS’s from so many different suppliers so I’m not 100% positive, but I believe it was from this source: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/NEW-Battery-Protection-BMS-PCB-Board-for-10-Packs-36V-Li-ion-Cell-max-30A-w/32291193643.html

It’s always hard to say exactly how much AH’s someone will need because every case is different. With that powerful motor sucking lots of juice and big hills though, you are going to want a minimum of 48V20AH. If I were you I would try to go even higher, but it may be even better to simply have two batteries at that point. It’s annoying to swap them, but if you ever had a problem with a 48V30AH battery that destroyed the pack, it would be a big investment straight to the garbage. A problem in one of your smaller packs would mean you still had the other. It’s not likely to happen, but it’s something to think about.

3. There’s something that I think you might be missing here. The factor that actually limits current draw is the controller, not the motor or the BMS. Those are “rated” for 500w and 15A, respectively, meaning they won’t overheat at those values. But both can physically pass those values if you force them to. It’s the controller that is actually “pulling” the current. So you should check your controller to see what its current limit is. If it is a 15A limit controller, then it won’t physically pull more than 15A. The fact that your battery can technically put out 1200W just means that it has “oomph” than you’re using, and you’re giving it an easy, healthy life. But if you switched to a 50A controller, suddenly you’d be pulling the maximum current that your battery can supply (and probably overheating your motor if you pull that 50A for a long time).

For a heavy trailer, I’d add a second brushed motor to the cart, whether the bike has a motor or not. You’d only need 24V, and here’s a discussion about powered trailers. The most important thing for going over sand is to have the fattest tires you can fit onto the trailer.

I don’t know what you mean by saying your battery is 36W, batteries can’t be measured in watts. The only way to know what power your bike needs is to multiply battery voltage by controller current. If you can’t find a marking on your controller that says what its peak current is, you’d have to measure it with an ammeter, like a clamp on DC ammeter that can measure around the battery wire.

My daily driver ebike has 8 cells paralled (14s8p) and it’s been working great for a long time. You can certainly make two 13s4p packs and parallel them after the fact, but don’t be afraid of making a single pack. As long as you use good quality cells, the risk of a parallel group dying is incredibly small.

Lead acid batteries are much larger and heavier than lithium batteries, limiting their placement on ebikes. They almost never come packaged with ebike specific mounting hardware which means that they generally have to go in a bag on the rear rack or in panniers on either side if the rear wheel. Mounting them up high on the rack isn’t a good idea either because it will negatively affect handling. Generally speaking, you want to mount your batteries as low as possible to keep the center of gravity of the ebike lower towards the ground. This will significantly improve your ebike’s handling.

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The Panasonic NCR18650B cells you have are very good quality cells. I used similar cells also made by Panasonic, but mine are the NCR18650PF (not B). The difference is that yours have more capacity (mine are 2900mAh, yours 3400mAh) but yours have a lower constant current draw rating. I don’t remember what it is off the top of my head, but I don’t think it’s much more than 5A per cell. So just make sure that you either use enough cells in parallel and/or limit your controller to not draw more power than the cells can handle. Check the cell specification sheet which you can find on Google somewhere to ensure that you are staying within the cells’ limit.

Lithium Battery technology in a bicycle is still experimental and you have to use a lot of common sense when using these batteries. However with a little education and some end user carefulness, you can use lithium batteries safely, the same as you can safely deal with putting gasoline in your riding lawn mower.

First off: the info you received about a the battery without a BMS blowing your controller is wrong. It’s always a good idea to use a BMS for safety reasons, but as long as the battery is balanced and fully charged, your controller has no idea if it has a BMS or not. All your controller cares about is if the voltage is correct, which as long as the battery is charged, then it presumably will be.

Sorry Benoit, but that won’t work. The BMS will expect the full 10 cells and when it sees that cells are missing, it will assume they are at 0V and not provide any power. You need a 7s BMS, which are pretty commong. 8s will be harder to find for li-ion, but you could do 8s with LiFePO4 and those 8s BMS’s are common.

the problem i have and the bit im confused on is this, i understand the negative on the entire pack goes to the negative on the BMS and the positive of each parallel cells goes to each sense wire but where are the charge and discharge wires going ? am i corrrect in saying that the positive of the pack goes to the charge and discharge socket on the BMS and that when the pack receives its charge it charges the pack and the discharge is when the pack is under load from the output of the pack i.e what ever its connected to for example your bikes motor? in your tutorial you havent shown how you connected the parallel groups of batteries together in series to give you the final pack voltage and capacitance but i’m assuming you linked them in series to get the toal 36v but on the pictures the first and last cells are split compared to the doubled up cells you have through out. am i also correct in saying that if you have 2 batteries connected together to form a cell then you dont need a sense wire on each battery because the two batteries are considered to be the same battery and when they charge and discharge they equalize as one shunts the other ? sorry for so many questions i have googled and googled and googled and as Einstein once said the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, many thanks in advance .

“electric battery bike electric bike batteries lithium”

First thing is regarding the cells – I have just order some Panasonic 18650PF like yours by chance (I was looking for Samsung). The delivered cells were made and charged in 2014, and the measured voltage now is around 3V (+/- 0.1v). So the voltage is basically the same for all of them but there are old, I think, even thaw never used and stored in a warehouse.

Power ratings of E-bike kits and the C-rates of batteries for sale are ALL highly suspect. The endless-sphere authority on batteries and their C-rates is Doctor Bass. He has nothing to gain from misrepresenting any chemistry or battery manufacturer. I must admit I am annoyed if a new battery is claimed to be a 5C chemistry, but testing shows it to survive better at 3C, however…a misrepresented battery that is a true 3C is still a good thing.

Lithium batteries made specially for ebikes often come batteries for electric scooters replacement specific bicycle mounting points making them easy to bolt to the bike frame, seat post or rear rack. If you go with a different type of lithium battery without ebike specific mounts, you’ll likely have to put it in a bag on the bike, which is still a good option, and one that I even prefer sometimes. (Link to blog post of mine about center frame triangle batteries).

Yes, you can upgrade a GIO PB710 with a lithium battery. You just want to make sure your battery is the same voltage as the original lead acid battery and that it can handle the current demanded by the bike’s controller.

As an aside, the 50A-800A you’re talking about is during the output, and that’s at a very low voltage, which is the reason for the high current draw. But that power equals a much lower current on the input end where it draws from the wall outlet.

I figured this would be a critical step I wouldn’t want to mess up. Thanks for the advice on using the multimeter. That’s good to know as I thought I might need to open up the controller and see which wires went where on that male xlr connection which I guess would be an option too. Thanks again!

I hope someone can recommend another spotwelder or some other kind of Technic to fuse batteries with wire (except soldering) . This has been an expensive ordeal and if not even a techlab with endless lasers cutters and cool cants get this machine even to power up, its something wrong with the machine.

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Assuming the original battery is a li-ion battery and has the same number of cells in series (same voltage), then yes it should charge it. However, looking at the picture of the battery in that listing, I can tell you that is not a picture a 24V 25AH battery. That picture has 6 cells, and a 24V 25AH battery will have something more like 56 cells. That picture looks like a 22V 3AH battery. It could be that they simply used the wrong picture in the listing, though I doubt it as that would be an insanely good price for that size of a battery. but I’d be wary of that offer either way.

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Your method of using the tubes might work but I still worry about how much current you could safely pull out of those connections. You can definitely charge the way you described but trust me, charging 2 or 4 cells at a time gets VERY frustrating. You’ll be spending days, maybe a week, getting your battery all the way charged again.

Lay your nickel strip on top of the three cells, ensuring that it covers all three terminals. Turn your welder on and adjust the current to a fairly low setting (if it’s your first time using the welder). Perform a test weld by placing the battery cells and copper strip below the probes and lifting up until the welding arms raise high enough to initiate the weld.

In the rush to upgrade from lead acid to the latest NiMH and lithium packs, it seems that most companies forgot about the old venerable Nickel Cadmium battery as a suitable option for ebikes. Although they are somewhat heavier than the NiMH and lithium options, they are still a substantial weight savings over lead. NiCd packs have had a solid and proven track record in demanding rechargeable battery applications.

For any other case, lithium batteries’ advantages greatly outweigh SLAs. Of course, for your specific ebike you might have other reasons that could sway you either way. At the end of the day, your ebike is all about you. I hope this information helps you make the right choice for your own battery needs.

I would prefer to go with lithium, but I have a couple of 75 volt (i think) cells from a UPS that are brand new. They are built from regular 12v (sixteen total) sealed lead units and would make the initial investment in an ebike that much more reasonable. One huge downside is that I hope to use the folding ebike in my homebuilt aircraft. As with ebikes, excess weight is to be avoided!

Do you by any chance have some spare parts you can swap in? A spare controller would you let you know if the controller is faulty and tripping early. Another battery would show you if the problem was battery related.

thanks for detail explanation , I was enjoj reading it. Well, I am interesting why did you pick this tipe of battery, I was thinking to use LiFePO4, I know there are usualy 3.2V it is less than 3.6V like here? Also, can you explain me how to calculate max current of battery, it says that you get 8.7Ah, but how much Ampers and what is the power of battery, how many Watts (P = U * I)? Furthermore, without welding, can I do on contact connection, like for example are battery in remote control?

C values seem to be as much about cell packaging as chemistry for LiFePo/LiMn/LiNiCoMn Pouch and prismatic cells with high AHr per cell tend to have a C value of about 1 to 1.5. So cheap packs both cased and shrink wrapped or from suppliers like Ping seem to be like this. Cylindrical cells from A123 or Headway tend to have C values of 3C to 5C upwards. And for a fully built pack, C is as much about cells in parallel as anything. eg 10s2p having twice the C of 10s1p Again BMSBattery/GreenBikeKit are now selling LiFePo Headway based packs with a BMS and with C values of 3C to 5C and either cased or shrinkwrap.

A very affordable 13S BMS that I like is this 30A version, though it can take a few weeks or even a month to arrive since it’s coming all the way from China. http://www.aliexpress.com/item/13-lithium-battery-protection-board-48v-lithium-battery-BMS-30A-continuous-60A-peak-discharge/1741121963.html

LiFePO4 is currently widely available for purchase as e-bike packs complete with BMS on ebay and other online merchants. Mostly it is sold by small companies. Also, most of the commercially available e-bikes powered by lithium batteries are using the LiFePO4 chemistry.

Small hard-cased A123 cells (about the size of a “C” battery) have been salvaged out of power drill packs, car battery packs etc, and have made it into the hands of e-bike DIYers who solder them together in series and in parallel to construct a pack big enough and powerful enough to power an e-bike.

Cool project! I’d check out electric rider (www.electricrider.com) as I know they have some good electric rickshaw and electric tricycle kits. You’re looking for a strong 48V motor that is geared really low. You want torque, not speed. With slow speed, something in the 1,000 – 1,500W is probably enough. Just don’t expect to be flying down the road…

Thanks so much for this excellent information. I was wondering how to calculate the total amps for the entire battery? I’m trying to determine watts from this as I have a 24V 500 watt Rayos electric bike and am working to build a 24V 20 Ah battery (7s7p) battery and would like to know what watts it is capable of providing.

If you don’t find that, there’s still a chance that it’s the problem, and that the cells simply rose up to a higher voltage and matched the others again once the load disappeared. But it also may be that the load is too high for the BMS. Do you have a cycle analyst? You could slowly increase the throttle and watch how much current you are drawing until the point of cutoff. If it’s well below 40A then you’ll know it’s not a high current cutoff.

“electric bike batteries lithium +electric car batteries”

Lithium electric bike batteries are not cheap, they are not perfect, and they are not readily available. Some OEM’s such as BionX sell a moderately sized lithium e-bike battery pack for $1000 plus. Optibike sells their touring LiPo battery as an add-on accessory for their bike for a gasping $2500. It is surprisingly difficult to find a ready to plug in LiPo battery pack for sale on the internet by any real company.  The reason is simply product liability.

The 48V, 8AH lithium battery of this ebike is removable. Material: Aluminium alloy frame. E-bike & Assisted bicycle, you can choose the E-bike to enjoy a long time travel, and also exercise. Combining…

The battery packs from Allcell are unique in that the cells are surrounded in a phase change material supported in a graphite matrix, which allows these batteries to handle higher sustained discharge currents without the cells overheating, and they have longer cycle life as a result of this thermal management. However, being ‘naked’ packs, they do not come in a rigid enclosure or bike mounting solution, The 48V 23Ah packs now come in a very nice rigid casing, though they still do not have ane explicit mounting mounting hardware and it’s up to the user to install them in protective case or bag on the bike. These batteries are available in 36V 17Ah, 36V 23Ah, 48V 17Ah, and 48V 23Ah options, and can handle 40A motor controllers just fine. They are assembled in the USA and have UN38.3 certification.

Continue down the row of cells placing a weld on each cell. Then go back and do another batteries for electric scooters replacement of welds on each cell. I like to do 2-3 welds (4-6 weld points) per cell. Any less and the weld isn’t as secure; any more and you’re just unnecessarily heating the cell. More and more welds won’t increase the current carrying ability of the nickel strip very much. The actual weld point isn’t the only place where current flows from the cell to the strip. A flat piece of nickel will be touching the whole surface of the cell cap, not just at the points of the weld. So 6 weld points is plenty to ensure good contact and connection.

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The high C-rate is not the only reason LiPo is adored by the high performance crowd, the addition of Cobalt to the cathode meant that more power would fit in a smaller package. This was driven by the boom in Radio-Controlled (RC) models in the late 1990’s (RC airplanes, cars, helicopters, etc). When that market suddenly expanded, an Australian enthusiast started a company to supply RC parts from factories in China. Hobby King.com was born. Last year, due to popular demand, HK has opened warehouses in The USA and in Germany (edit: even more countries have HK warehouses now).

I finished an ebike yesterday, but i found some major problems on it, The problem is while i riding the bike by throttling, some times the display light dims and low battery voltage caution icon is displaying in the display. and than display shutting off. after that if i try to turn it on again it wont work, so i removed the battery from controller and installed it again than works perfectly, it happens always so i want to remove and install battery again and again, so what is this problem, is this problem is in battery or controller?? Please give me a solution.

As you draw current from a battery pack, the voltage will very slowly decrease until the cells start to go flat and then the voltage will plummet. The time that the battery lasts for is directly related to its capacity, measured in amp-hours (Ah). A pack that can deliver 1 amp for 1 hour has a capacity of 1 Ah. Most ebike batteries are on the order of 10 amp-hours. Suppose your bike uses 15 amps on average and has a 10Ah pack, then you would expect it to last for – quick, mental calculation… – 40 minutes.

What a great article! It has opened my eyes to lots of possibilities. Being new to this I had a couple of questions. I am interested in building a spare battery to give me more range on the Faraday Porteur. My question is how to connect the battery I would build to the bike. The main battery resides in the downtube and the connection is hidden. They offer an ancillary battery that plugs into the charging port which is what I would like to build myself rather than buy. Do you think this would be possible? Where could I find a connector that would match? Any concerns? If so, what other options do you suggest? Thanks so much for the help!!

Small hard-cased A123 cells (about the size of a “C” battery) have been salvaged out of power drill packs, car battery packs etc, and have made it into the hands of e-bike DIYers who solder them together in series and in parallel to construct a pack big enough and powerful enough to power an e-bike.

My question for you is, if I just want to run a BMS for balance charge purposes only and want to wire the battery discharge directly to the motor how would I do that? Would that be a good solution as long as I monitor battery pack voltage during rides?

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LiPo’s are the smallest, cheapest, lightest and most powerful lithium batteries. Their disadvantages include short lifespan and propensity to combust into giant fireballs if not cared for correctly (I’m not kidding, check out the short video clip below).

For the record, I just wanted to add my experiences with LiFePO4. I built an ebike with 16 Headway 40160S cells one year ago (48 Volts, 16 AH). They are rated at 10C maximum continuous discharge. I have my controller set for a maximum draw of 30 Amps, well below their ratings. The first BMS killed a couple of cells, which I replaced. Then I switched to a Signalab BMS and the cells have balanced nicely ever since. I’m up to 120 charge cycles and over 1500 miles.

I’ve checked with a few people that have bought 220V european welders and used them in the US, and they all say they work fine (besides one that broke a few months later from an unrelated issue). As far as I can tell, regardless of whether its half or full phase, the transformer inside still sees the approximately 220V it’s looking for. Have you tested yours on 220V yet?

The best method is to use a trusted vendor. They interact with the cell providers and are the best way to confirm whether cells are fake or not. It can be incredibly difficult to tell whether a cell is fake or not just by picking it up from the table. There are some giveaways like different printing on the wrapper, slightly different color, different stamp, different weight or different shell design, but all of those can be mimicked. That’s why I use only a handful of vendors that I’ve worked with continuously and who I know have always given me good quality cells. I had to go through some low quality ones until I found the sources I buy from now.

To wire the BMS, we first need to determine which of the sense wires (the many thin wires) is the first one (destined for the first parallel group). Look for the wires to be numbered on one side the board. Mine is on the backside of the board and I forgot to take a picture of it before installing it, but trust me that I took note of which end the sense wires start on. You don’t want to make a mistake and connect the sense wires starting in the wrong direction.

Wow, that’s a really interesting way to do it. So their auxiliary battery connects to the charge port of the primary battery, which means it’s not actually powering the bike but rather just charging the primary battery, which then powers the bike. Not the most efficient way to do it, but it’s simple and elegant.

When it comes to layout, there are two ways to assemble cells in straight packs (rectangular packs like I am building). I don’t know if there are industry terms for this, but I call the two methods “offset packing” and “linear packing”.

Something that’s worthy of note, is that “AllCell” is using a block of graphite/wax composite Phase-Change-Material (PCM) using a patented formula. If a single cell suddenly starts running hot, the heat is instantly spread out across the PCM block, which would prevent a thermal runaway event. According to a recent press-release: