One of the main disadvantages of lead acid batteries is their weight. There’s no beating around the bush here, SLAs are HEAVY, as you might guess by the inclusion of “lead” in the name. You’ll need a strong mounting solution on your ebike to handle the extra weight of SLAs. You should also be aware that lugging that extra weight around is going to negatively impact your range. The best way to improve the range of any electric vehicle is to reduce weight, and SLAs are kind of going the opposite way in that regard.
Thanks for the info! I have read about builders that used Sony Konion LiMn cells that were removed from Makita Drill packs. The constant theme of their reports show that the thing they seem to like the most, is that the cells seem to just stay in balance. So much so that, several have built packs with no BMS. If there is a measurable LiMn shelf life issue compared to other chemistries, it doesn’t seem to bother the DIY pack building crowd.
I don’t know what you mean by saying your battery is 36W, batteries can’t be measured in watts. The only way to know what power your bike needs is to multiply battery voltage by controller current. If you can’t find a marking on your controller that says what its peak current is, you’d have to measure it with an ammeter, like a clamp on DC ammeter that can measure around the battery wire.
Regarding your first question: as long as your BMS has a balancing function (most do) then you do NOT need a charger that does balancing, and in fact you should not use one. The BMS takes care of all the balancing, so all you need is a simple ebike charger. What is important though is that it is a CC-CV (constant current, constant voltage) charger. Most ebike chargers are, but just check to make sure it says that somewhere in the description, or ask the vendor if you can’t find it. The CC-CV part means that the charger will supply a constant current first, bringing the battery voltage up slowly until it reaches the full voltage (54.6V for your 13S battery). Then it switches to CV mode and holds a constant voltage while it gradually backs the current down to zero, which is the ‘finishing’ part of the charge.
The nickel is surprisingly soft, which means you can use an ordinary pair of scissors to cut it. Try not to bend it too much though, as you want it to remain as flat as possible. If you do bend the corners with the scissors, you can easily bend them back down with your finger.
A123 is a brand name of lithium ion phosphate battery used in many EV even full car applications.. A123 cells are known to be of high quality and capable of having high-amp discharge rates with long life expectancy of over 1000 charges. They can provide large amounts of power and have been used in racing applications as well as electric car builds. Chrysler has chosen to use A123 cells in their electric cars.
For a complete write up on LiFePO4 care and trouble shooting read our story here. LiFePO4 cells nominal voltage is generally from 3.0-to 3.2 volts, and generally, lifepo4 is a heavier and less power dense than available LiPo batteries and is not capable of as high of amperage discharge.
3. Yes, 18650’s with capacity ratings of 6000 or 8000 mAh are fake. The technology simply doesn’t exist to put that much energy in a cell that size on an economical level. In a few years we might be there, but not right now. Currently, the biggest cells are in the high 3,000 mAh range for 18650’s. 26650’s are larger cells and so those can have higher capacities, but there are many fewer options and variety of 26650 cells, so 18650’s are the common cells used in ebike packs.
If you can’t find the exact same battery to fit in that holder, you could aways open up the area where the controller is and lengthen the wires so they exit the case, then put your own connector there (rated for at least 20A). Then add that same connector to your second battery pack and you’ve got an easy plug and play setup for switching packs with the matching connector.
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i am building a 10s4p 36v 18650 battery pack for my ebike, what gauge silicon wire you recommend for discharge and charge wires, i am using 2.5 amp 42.5v li-ion battery charger bought from ebay(http://www.ebay.com/itm/281639749374?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT), and 10s 36v 30amp bms bought from ebay(http://www.ebay.com/itm/182247900118?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT) and 500w 36v controller.
Now I’m sure you’re all jazzed about building your own battery pack. But just in case, I’m going to leave you with an awesome video featuring battery builder Damian Rene of Madrid, Spain building a very large, very professionally constructed 48V 42AH battery pack from 18650 cells. You can read about how he built this battery here. (Also, note in the video his good use of safety equipment!)
I love this article and I am inspired by the knowledge here, I have a question, I need to build a 72v battery and the one I’m looking at is using 38160 cells, these cells are very expensive so how can I manage this the best using the smaller normal size cells like you’re using! Do I really have to make a battery 20 cells deep to reach this and to bump up the amp hours I would let say go 10 wide for a 30 amp hour right? Pretty close! Big battery but is it feasible or is there a better product
36v 10Ah Bottle Type Battery. Rated capacity: 10Ah. 36v 14Ah Rear Rack Type Battery. Rated capacity: 14Ah. 48V 14Ah Rear Rack Type Battery. Recommended to be used with 36V 250W electric bicycle motor.
Do you by any chance have some spare parts you can swap in? A spare controller would you let you know if the controller is faulty and tripping early. Another battery would show you if the problem was battery related.
But there’s still another issue: now if I just slip my pack inside some shrink wrap tube, I’ll still have exposed ends. This is more or less ok structurally, though it won’t be very water resistant and it will look a bit less professional.
A BMS isn’t necessarily strictly required – it is possible to use the pack as is, without a BMS. But that requires very careful monitoring of the cells of the battery to avoid damaging them or creating a dangerous scenario during charging or discharging. It also requires buying a more complicated and expensive charger that can balance all of the cells individually. It’s much better to go with a BMS unless you have specific reasons to want to monitor your cells by yourself.
thanks for detail explanation , I was enjoj reading it. Well, I am interesting why did you pick this tipe of battery, I was thinking to use LiFePO4, I know there are usualy 3.2V it is less than 3.6V like here? Also, can you explain me how to calculate max current of battery, it says that you get 8.7Ah, but how much Ampers and what is the power of battery, how many Watts (P = U * I)? Furthermore, without welding, can I do on contact connection, like for example are battery in remote control?
2) Try measuring the voltage of the battery while you plug it in and attempt to power the bike. If you see the voltage drop instantly when you turn on the bike, you’ll know you’ve likely got an issue with weak cells or a poor connection that causes a voltage sag issue.
Please forward to every member of ur family of em3ev! Here it’s been a great ride! Tks guys for everything. I can do mtb again bcause of your kit. My lower back and my knee been injured badly and i got fibromyalgia so without ur help my bike …
As far as dimensions, I prefer to use 0.1 or 0.15 mm thick nickel, and usually use a 7 or 8 mm wide strip. A stronger welder can do thicker strip, but will cost a lot more. If your welder can do 0.15 mm nickel strip then go for it; thicker is always better. If you have thinner strips then that’s fine too, just lay down a couple layers on top of each other when necessary to create connections that can carry more current.
1C charging is too high for most Li-ion. It’s too much to ask for right now, to be able to charge an entire pack in one hour. It can be done, but it’s not healthy for the cells. Aim for 0.5C at the most. I usually don’t go past 0.3C on charging.
Charge current depends on the cells. Most cells can take at least 500mA, some considerably more. It’s hard to know what cells you’re using. Assuming they are 18650pf Panasonic cells like I used here, 1A per cell would be fine, giving you a charge rate of 3A. They can actually take more than that, but there’s no reason to push them too hard if you don’t have to.
Panasonic and Samsung are the only manufacturers I know of that are producing this chemistry (several other manufacturers buy these and re-label them as their own). Since you would have to buy the bare cells in order to solder together your own pack, I wouldn’t have mentioned these just yet, but…EBAY-seller supowerbattery111 is selling these, and…he will also professionally spot-weld the cells into groups for a small fee, which reduces your pack-building efforts down to about 1/10th of what it would be otherwise. His main business seems to be refurbishing cordless tool battery packs that have worn out.
A higher voltage setup therefore needs fewer amp-hours to deliver the same range. So a 24V 8Ah battery can deliver 192 watt-hours, while a 48V 4Ah pack also has 192 watt-hours. Assuming that both batteries are of the same chemistry, then you could expect they would weigh the same, cost the same, and provide the same performance on appropriately designed ebikes (ie, one designed for 24V and the other for 48V).
Lastly, regarding the spot welder. I actually prefer to use the kind like you said, with the two arms that lift up and provide equal pressure at each weld. The kind with two long welding cables like this welder has both options which is nice, especially for if you need to reach to the middle of a pack to make a repair or if you missed a weld. I mostly use the short rigid arms though and just weld one row at a time before adding more cells – that way I can reach all the cells with the short arms.
So after buying a 48v 20 Amp battery from Ebay (and knowing very little at that point), I realized it didn’t have a BMS and heard rumors that if i attached it direct to the controller, it would see it as a short (controller would be closed) and blow the controller.
In many situations, especially if you are replacing a battery pack on an existing setup, the voltage is defined by the controller electronics and cannot be readily changed. Otherwise, the voltage determines the maximum speed at which your vehicle will travel, and you have a degree of freedom in selecting the voltage to meet your performance expectations. If you know the volts/rpm for the motor, then it is straightforward to calculate how fast it will go for a given voltage. Select a value that gives an unloaded speed of about 20% greater than your desired cruising speed for best performance.
Finally found it. WOW!! Exactly what was needed. I struggle with conceptualizing verbal descriptions. You solved that! With the new JP Welder from Croatia my first welded build will soon be a reality. Thanks for all you do for eBiking!
Then I took the sense wire labeled B1 and soldered it to the positive terminal of the first parallel group (which also happens to be the same as the negative terminal of the second parallel group, as they are connected together with nickel strip).
I wouldn’t say incompatible but us 220 uses the full phase peak to peak of both legs of the elec drop. European and others uses a half phase (I believe) where zero to peak is 220v. Have you had a chance to look into this for me as my welder and box of new 18650’s are sitting idle waiting for me batteries for electric scooters replacement start welding. Thanks
12V increments are easier to do with LiFePO4 due to the 3.2V per cell. So for 12V, 24V, 36V and 48V they go 4 cells, 8 cells, 12 cells and 16 cells. Li-ion is more annoying because the 3.7V per cell doesn’t play as nicely. The general convention for the same 12V increments is 3 cells, 7 cells, 10 cells, and 13 or 14 cells. 3 cells is just a bit low for a 12V system (about 11V nominal) but will work for most applications until the voltage drops to about 9.5 or 10V depending on your device’s cutoffs. Regarding the balancing issue, if you’re using those packs that claim to remain in balance then I’d imagine you can just trust them. If their packs had problems with balance then they’d probably be having tons of returns. Worst come to worst you can occasionally open the case and measure the cells to make sure they are all staying balanced. One word of advice: be very careful with the series/parallel switch setup. If you make a mistake or the switch melts you could end up shorting your batteries and ruin the whole lot…
I use my welders on 220V, though 110V versions are available. If you have access to 220V in your home (many 110V countries have 220V lines for clothes dryers and other high power appliances) then I’d recommend sticking with 220V. In my experience the 110V models seem to have more problems than their 220V brothers. Your mileage may vary.
A better and simpler solution would be, as you said, to carry a second battery and just swap the connector from the old battery to the new one when the old battery is depleted. There are a few types of bottle batteries out there, I recommend googling “bottle battery” if you haven’t yet, you’ll likely find a few options. I don’t know if this is the same model as yours, but some common styles similar to your description can be found here and here.