“scooter batteries diy lithium ion battery”

Yes, I’ve seen this problem. Homes that have only a 10A circuit breaker are often not enough for these welders. The room I wanted to use mine in had a 10A, so I switched it for a 20A breaker at the breaker box and now it works fine.

Is it possible that the controller for this Rayos 600W (sorry thought it was 500W but it’s actually 600W) is inside the electric motor itself? I traced all wiring on the E bike but find no controller anywhere. Do you see anything majorly wrong with using a BMS to charge the cells but not discharge, as in sending the current from the battery directly to the controller / motor? I’ve been unable to find a BMS that can do 30A that isn’t very expensive. A side note, I was able to test amperage while riding and around 20A gets me 9 miles per hour, that is where my multimeter tops out! I’m 235 pounds. I’m guessing I need around 30A to get the 16 MPH I get now with the existing LiFePO4 battery pack.

Then I took the sense wire labeled B1 and soldered it to the positive terminal of the first parallel group (which also happens to be the same as the negative terminal of the second parallel group, as they are connected together with nickel strip).

Note that in the article it says that LiFePo is the most commonly used chemistry. I think that depends on where you are looking. I suspect that LiNiCoMn or the older LiMn is actually most common in terms of total unit cells because they’re the cheapest and get used in the low end E-Bike market in China.

If you can’t find the exact same battery to fit in that holder, you could aways open up the area where the controller is and lengthen the wires so they exit the case, then put your own connector there (rated for at least 20A). Then add that same connector to your second battery pack and you’ve got an easy plug and play setup for switching packs with the matching connector.

For the record, I just wanted to add my experiences with LiFePO4. I built an ebike with 16 Headway 40160S cells one year ago (48 Volts, 16 AH). They are rated at 10C maximum continuous discharge. I have my controller set for a maximum draw of 30 Amps, well below their ratings. The first BMS killed a couple of cells, which I replaced. Then I switched to a Signalab BMS and the cells have balanced nicely ever since. I’m up to 120 charge cycles and over 1500 miles.

The lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) battery has had a lot of hype and media attention lately. This is the same chemistry used by A123 in the Dewalt power tool battery packs, where it has a 2000 charge and discharge cycle warrantee and has phenomenal current handling capability. The LiFePO4 batteries sold for ebike use generally have much lower current ratings, and the actual number of charge and discharge cycles that these generic packs will provide remains to be seen, although most manufacturers seem happy to claim 1500 to 2000 cycles. Iron Phosphate lithium packs are only slightly lighter than NiMH and a fair bit more expensive, but they could be the most economical in the long run.

Features: It is so light weight , easy to transport and to take it. It is eco-friendly and safe to use it. The battery holder is so stable and sturdy. Super powerful,safe and reliable. Suitable for bi…

Yes, as I understand it, Nimh and NiCd batteries charge differently. I understand lithium batteries much better than those other technologies, so don’t quote me on this, but I believe that Nimh and NiCd cells have current powered through them and the voltage control is different, as opposed to lithium cells that draw current at the charger’s preset rate and then keep drawing until the voltage floats to 4.2V, at which point the already tapering charger’s current supply is cutoff and the battery is fully charged.

I want to use my two 4Ah Ryobi lithium batteries 18volts in series for 36 volts. I have a charger for them , they use 15 batteries each so 30 total, they are $50 each. This seems similar to your 36v build for about $3 each so $90 total, plus a spot welder for $1oo. I want to get a 38v/750 48v/1000w rear motor recommended from your web site from aliexpress. Do you think that these will work for my bicycle?

I’ve gotten so many different BMS’s from so many different suppliers so I’m not 100% positive, but I believe it was from this source: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/NEW-Battery-Protection-BMS-PCB-Board-for-10-Packs-36V-Li-ion-Cell-max-30A-w/32291193643.html

When it comes to electric bicycle batteries, you’ve got two main options: lithium batteries and lead acid batteries. Sure, there are a few other types of ebike batteries out there, but the main two types you’ll see all over the place remain lithium and lead acid. Of course lithium batteries and lead acid batteries each come with their own distinct advantages and disadvantages, and knowing the difference will help you decide which is best for your ebike.

Manufacturers usually rate their cells’ capacity at very low discharge rates, sometimes just 0.1c, where the cells perform at their maximum. So don’t be surprised if you’re only getting 95% or so of the advertised capacity of your cells during real world discharges. That’s to be expected. Also, your capacity is likely to go up a bit after the first few charge and discharge cycles as the cells get broken in and balance to one another.

I was using that battery on an ebike with a 15A controller, so that BMS was capable of twice the power I need, meaning I would only be stressing it to 50% of it’s potential by pulling 15A. That’s why I said it’s more than I’ll need. But if I wanted to put it on a bike with a 45A controller, then it would batteries for electric scooters replacement be enough, and I’d need a more powerful BMS.

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There are many different types of lithium ebike batteries to choose from. I’ll give a short summary of the different types of electric bicycle specific lithium batteries here, but you can get a more detailed description as well as the pros and cons of each type of lithium battery in my article Not All Lithium Batteries Were Created Equal.

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First thing is regarding the cells – I have just order some Panasonic 18650PF like yours by chance (I was looking for Samsung). The delivered cells were made and charged in 2014, and the measured voltage now is around 3V (+/- 0.1v). So the voltage is basically the same for all of them but there are old, I think, even thaw never used and stored in a warehouse.

I have an old 12V DC Brush Motor which its consumption is around the 12A, 13 A and I built a Battery pack, with two groups of batteries, (4S6P)+(4S6P), which makes a total pack with 14,8V 30A. To make this battery pack I used 18650 Samsung Cells 2600 mAh.

Next, we’ll need to wire multiple 18650 cells in parallel to reach our desired pack capacity. Each of the cells I’m using are rated at 2,900 mAh. I plan to put 3 cells in parallel, for a combined capacity of 2.9Ah x 3 cells = 8.7 Ah. The industry abbreviation for parallel cells is ‘p’, meaning that my final pack configuration is considered a “10S3P pack” with a final specification of 36V 8.7AH.

That’s exactly correct. You’d start by welding 10 parallel groups of 4 cells each, then you’d connect those 10 parallel groups in series to make one rectangular battery. I’ve done many 10s4p packs just like that for 36V 10ah ebike batteries.

However, the description says The monolithic 12V batteries do not have any PCM (any electronics) inside. They consist of finely balanced cells with identical perfomace. The battery must be managed as a single monolithic 12V block.

“battery electric bike _bike battery”

If you can’t find the exact same battery to fit in that holder, you could aways open up the area where the controller is and lengthen the wires so they exit the case, then put your own connector there (rated for at least 20A). Then add that same connector to your second battery pack and you’ve got an easy plug and play setup for switching packs with the matching connector.

A123 is a brand name of lithium ion phosphate battery used in many EV even full car applications.. A123 cells are known to be of high quality and capable of having high-amp discharge rates with long life expectancy of over 1000 charges. They can provide large amounts of power and have been used in racing applications as well as electric car builds. Chrysler has chosen to use A123 cells in their electric cars.

I should really change that $2 cutoff to more like $2.50, which is more reasonable for quality cells. Basically, the cheapest ‘good’ cells are Samsung 26F cells, which can be had for usually around $2.50 – $2.90 if you are buying in any large quantity, like at least 100. Expect to pay more like $3.00 or so if you’re buying only 40 cells. 26F cells are also limited to 5A discharge though, so you’ve got the same issue as with the NCR18650B cells from Panasonic.

Introduce Yukon Trail 2018 new model Xpedition Features: 350w motor Battery: Samsung lithium battery (light weight 5 lbs with case) Speed/Mileage: up to 20MPH, up to 28 miles per full charge (varies b…

Now buckle up, grab a drink and get ready for some serious reading, because this isn’t a short article. But it will definitely be worth it in the end when you’re cruising around on your very own DIY ebike battery!

I hope not to have to replace the whole battery pack and wondering if it can be salvaged by replacing the just the dead cells and burnt connectors, or do you think the damage is too extensive to be worth repairing it?

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A High-performance Motor acheives a top speed of 20-30km/h with a range of 20km means your ebike commute just got easier. 36V 8AH Lithium-Ion Battery. Motor: 36V 250W brushless. Rang: 18-25km(36v 6ah)…

Another advantage of lead acid batteries is their high power output potential. Lithium batteries generally don’t like to handle too much current. SLAs, on the other hand, can provide huge amounts of current. If you are planning a very high power electric bicycles, SLAs might be a good option for you.

I figured this would be a critical step I wouldn’t want to mess up. Thanks for the advice on using the multimeter. That’s good to know as I thought I might need to open up the controller and see which wires went where on that male xlr connection which I guess would be an option too. Thanks again!

Yes, that’d work, but I’d get an additional 7s battery so you have 20s total. Also, you should know that the older your original 48V battery is, the more time it will take your new 72V combined battery to balance, as the first 13 cells will likely have less capacity in comparison to the newer cells. I made a video recently showing how to do this upgrade that you’re talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KHo-T74IWA

I didn’t include a charging a section in this article, as this was just about how to build a lithium battery. But here’s a video I made showing you how to choose the appropriate charger for your lithium battery.

The lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) battery has had a lot of hype and media attention lately. This is the same chemistry used by A123 in the Dewalt power tool battery packs, where it has a 2000 charge and discharge cycle warrantee and has phenomenal current handling capability. The LiFePO4 batteries sold for ebike use generally have much lower current ratings, and the actual number of charge and discharge cycles that these generic packs will provide remains to be seen, although most manufacturers seem happy to claim 1500 to 2000 cycles. Iron Phosphate lithium packs are only slightly lighter than NiMH and a fair bit more expensive, but they could be the most economical in the long run.

“…The wax is micro-encapsulated within the graphite matrix. When the wax melts, there’s enough surface tension between the wax and a graphite matrix that it doesn’t leak out. You could heat the material up to 300° C (570F), and it will become soft enough for a thumbprint, but it will remain solid…”

3. Yes, 18650’s with capacity ratings of 6000 or 8000 mAh are fake. The technology simply doesn’t exist to put that much energy in a cell that size on an economical level. In a few years we might be there, but not right now. Currently, the biggest cells are in the high 3,000 mAh range for 18650’s. 26650’s are larger cells and so those can have higher capacities, but there are many fewer options and variety of 26650 cells, so 18650’s are the common cells used in ebike packs.

As you sugested in one of your articles, using lead acid is a great way to prototype the build, so if I am happy with the performance if not the weight of the lead-acid, I can convert to lithium in the future and save some big weight.

When choosing a battery for your bike, not only is the weight important but the volume is also important. You want your pack as small as possible so its easy to stow and easy to hide. So therefore you should consider you battery’s volume, not just its weight. For sure you need to go with a lithium chemistry and not an old school heavy and large Sealed Lead Acid (SLA) or Nickel-Metal Hydride (NiMH) chemistry.

These cells are distinctive due to their cylindrical shape and are about the size of a finger. Depending on the size of the battery you plan to build, you’ll need anywhere from a few dozen to a few hundred of them.

Thanks so much for all this great informating, Im going to purchase the ebook for sure! One small question first, though. I’m building a 13s8p 18650 pack from laptop batteries for my bfang 750w 25A pedicab. I already have 45V 15 Ah LiPo setups from china, but want to up my Ah.

I did not intend for the timeline to reflect anything other than what I recall seeing as E-bike battery packs. Some chemistries have been around a long time before they were used by a significant number of E-bikers.

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Be warned: some less-than-honest vendors try to pass off nickel plated steel for the pure stuff. They often get away with it because it’s nearly impossible to distinguish between to the two with the naked eye. I wrote a whole article on some methods I developed for testing nickel strip to make sure you get what you paid for. Check it out here.

Well, you’re right that I wouldn’t recommend it! I admire your ingenuity but there are a couple big issues with this setup: 1) You have 4 groups of 10 series cells but no way to balance between them. The 4 cells need to be paralled before they are wired in series otherwise they will get increasingly out of balance with each charge/discharge cycle. 2) I’m not sure you’d get a good enough contact from a copper spring or busbar that is just held on the end of the cells in compression. The copper will also corrode over time and caused increase resistance at the point it touches the cells and problems down the road.

26\” wheels with Aluminum Alloy spokes. Opportunity: Outdoor Camping, Mountain. Speed up to 25km/h,High speed brushless shock. 36V 8AH Lithium-Ion Battery. Material: Aluminum Alloy. Mileage range: ≥40…

Linear packing, on the other hand, will result in a narrower pack that ends up a bit longer than offset packing. Some people say offset packing is more efficient because you can fit more cells in a smaller area by taking advantage of the space between cells. However, offset packing creates wasted space on the ends of parallel group rows where gaps form between the edge of the pack and the ‘shorter’ rows. The larger the battery pack, the less wasted space is taken up compared to the overall pack size, but the difference is negligible for most packs. For my battery, I decided to go with offset packing to make the pack shorter and fit easier into a small triangle bag.

100~240VAC Universal AC input Full range LiFePO4/Lithium Ion/Lead Acid 4000W Battery Charger Two S2500 model in parallel. Power:4000Watts; Protection function: / Overload / Over voltage / Over temperature / Over current / Reverse polarity / batteries for motor scooters off or trickle after finished charging; 2 years warranty

I wouldn’t say incompatible but us 220 uses the full phase peak to peak of both legs of the elec drop. European and others uses a half phase (I believe) where zero to peak is 220v. Have you had a chance to look into this for me as my welder and box of new 18650’s are sitting idle waiting for me to start welding. Thanks

Here is a an example of a large format soft pouch LiPo pack with 13 cells, and a BMS. This pack was built using cobalt LiPo soft cells with a BMS from a Chinese factory for an electric bike. You can see the top cell has been squished, causing the cell to fail and the BMS to shut down the battery, and not allowing it to charge or discharge. This pack is small and light (7lbs).  This $500 pack is now ruined, but  all is not lost since it did not start a fire, and it did NOT take the house with it.

“electric battery bike |battery for electric scooter”

Lithium Polymer cells, used mostly in the e-bike community to describe soft-pack RC like cells, generally have a lighter weight per watt-hour, and they have a high percentage of cobalt in its anode, which makes them very power-dense (lots of amp-hours in a small package) and also capable of very high amps of discharge (for high performance). Single cell LiPos are connected together in series to form a battery pack.

I would advise against connecting one battery to the other’s charging port. That charging port, as you correctly stated, is wired to a charging circuit on the BMS which is usually meant to take 5A max, sometimes less, whereas the discharging side of the BMS usually puts out at least 15A, sometimes much more. You can easily fry your BMS by connecting a second battery to its charge port.

For the record, I just wanted to add my experiences with LiFePO4. I built an ebike with 16 Headway 40160S cells one year ago (48 Volts, 16 AH). They are rated at 10C maximum continuous discharge. I have my controller set for a maximum draw of 30 Amps, well below their ratings. The first BMS killed a couple of cells, which I replaced. Then I switched to a Signalab BMS and the cells have balanced nicely ever since. I’m up to 120 charge cycles and over 1500 miles.

HERE ARE 99 GENIUNE LG LGABB41865 18650 2600MAH CELLS. THEY ARE IN MODEM BATTERIES, JUST NEED A FLAT SCREW DRIVER AND PRY THE CASE AT THE SEAM. THEY ARE IN 12V (3S1P) SET UP ALREADY SO YOU CAN SAVE A …

2. I highly recommend using a BMS in both Li-ion and LiFePO4 batteries. As a Li-ion vs LiFePO4 question, one isn’t necessarily better than the other. Li-ion will be cheaper and probably more powerful, but LiFePO4 is going to last years longer, so it’s all about what you want in your battery.

I’m not sure what cells exactly you’ve got there, but a good replacement cell (assuming it has similar specs to your cells, which you’ll have to confirm) could be the Samsung 26F cell. It’s a good quality economical battery cell. I’ve gotten them from here and had great experiences with the vendor: Samsung 26F 18650 lithium battery cells

As much as I want to build a pack just for fun and like buying tools like a spot welder I’m afraid of getting crappy cells at a high price. Whatj’s a good cell to charge at 1C for quick turn around and stay at a low price per cell? 36V 12A would be ok, more is a bonus.

I did not intend for the timeline to reflect anything other than what I recall seeing as E-bike battery packs. Some chemistries have been around a long time before they were used by a significant number of E-bikers.

$Xport 350W 7 Speed Electric Bike Features: 350W motor, Samsung Lithium Battery 3 Riding Modes: Electric (Throttle, 3 speed), Electric with Pedal, Pedal Only Spec: Motor: 350W Battery: 24V Samsung Lit…

If you have time, I’d be curious to hear about the pros and cons of this kind of approach. Is the main drawback simply the cumulative size of the plastic housing? Or is there some other limitation to this kind of hardware that makes it unsuitable?

That’s a good option. You’ll notice about a 30% increase in power, as well as a 30% increase in speed. Your motor can certainly handle it, the question is if your controller can. Make sure it’s rated for 48V or you’ll need to swap in a different controller.

When it comes to nickel strip, I also like to use Aliexpress. You can also find it on ebay or even a local source if you’re lucky. Once I started building lots of batteries I began buying pure nickel strip by the kilogram here, but in the beginning I recommend you pick up a smaller amount. You can get pure nickel strip for a good price in smaller amounts from a seller like this one, but you’ll still get the best price by buying it in kilo or half kilo quanitites.

The biggest advantage of lead acid batteries is their price: dirt cheap. Lead acid batteries can be purchased from many different online retailers and local stores. Purchasing SLAs locally helps save on shipping and makes them even cheaper. Many hardware and electronic stores carry them. Even Radioshack has them, though you’ll pay more there.

Most lithium batteries that are designed to mount to ebikes also come with some form of locking system. These have varying degrees of effectiveness. The type with a little pin that slides into a thin sheet of steel are the easiest to steal by mangling the thin steel locking plate. Just take a look at your battery and ask yourself “how easily could I steal this battery if I had some basic hand tools and a 60 second window of opportunity?”

The battery’s placement on the bike depends on different factors, especially the shape of the bike’s frame. Most electric city bikes (more than a half) will have the battery mounted on the carrier rack, while mountain bikes usually have them on the down tube.

Well, you’re right that I wouldn’t recommend it! I admire your ingenuity but there are a couple big issues with this setup: 1) You have 4 groups of 10 series cells but no way to balance between them. The 4 cells need to be paralled before they are wired in series otherwise they will get increasingly out of balance with each charge/discharge cycle. 2) I’m not sure you’d get a good enough contact from a copper spring or busbar that is just held on the end of the cells in compression. The copper will also corrode over time and caused increase resistance at the point it touches the cells and problems down the road.

I’m mostly familiar with BesTech’s 72V BMS’s and haven’t used a 52V BMS from them, so I can’t give you a recommendation on a specific 52V (14s) BMS from them, sorry. I have used this 14s BMS twice and it’s worked great for me on two 14s7p packs I made with Samsung 26F cells.

Capacity: 20Ah. 36V 3A Charger. Lifecycle of single cell: >85% capacity after 1500 cycles, > 70% capacity after 3000 cycles. (<1C discharge rate and <1C charge rate). It will take about 7 hours to cha... A High-performance Motor acheives a top speed of 20-30km/h with a range of 20km means your ebike commute just got easier. 36V 8AH Lithium-Ion Battery. Motor: 36V 250W brushless. Rang: 18-25km(36v 6ah)... LiFePO4-Lithium Iron Phosphate. This was the first lithium chemistry that really took off for use in cordless drills and laptop computers. Mass production brought the prices down, and E-bikers began buying cordless drill packs and gutting them for the cylindrical cells, so they could be re-configured from the stock 18V up to 48V (or more). The common low C-rate was around 1C, so builders began making packs for high voltage to get better performance without stressing the pack by trying to pull high amps. LiFePO4 requires a sophisticated Battery-Management-System (BMS) to stay healthy. Panasonic and Samsung are the only manufacturers I know of that are producing this chemistry (several other manufacturers buy these and re-label them as their own). Since you would have to buy the bare cells in order to solder together your own pack, I wouldn’t have mentioned these just yet, but…EBAY-seller supowerbattery111 is selling these, and…he will also professionally spot-weld the cells into groups for a small fee, which reduces your pack-building efforts down to about 1/10th of what it would be otherwise. His main business seems to be refurbishing cordless tool battery packs that have worn out. The high C-rate is not the only reason LiPo is adored by the high performance crowd, the addition of Cobalt to the cathode meant that more power would fit in a smaller package. This was driven by the boom in Radio-Controlled (RC) models in the late 1990’s (RC airplanes, cars, helicopters, etc). When that market suddenly expanded, an Australian enthusiast started a company to supply RC parts from factories in China. Hobby King.com was born. Last year, due to popular demand, HK has opened warehouses in The USA and in Germany (edit: even more countries have HK warehouses now). You can use any connectors you like. I’m a big fan of Anderson PowerPole https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bikes for the discharge leads. I used this other connector that I had in my parts bin for the discharge wires. I’m not sure what that type of connector is called, but if someone wants to let me know in the comments section then that’d be great! craig it should not damage your controller. When you connect two batteries together in parallel it will actually extend the life of both batteries because you are not taking as much of a toll on them when discharging and hopefully not running them down as low. If you can’t find the exact same battery to fit in that holder, you could aways open up the area where the controller is and lengthen the wires so they exit the case, then put your own connector there (rated for at least 20A). Then add that same connector to your second battery pack and you’ve got an easy plug and play setup for switching packs with the matching connector. Lithium Iron Phosphate is currently the most common lithium battery used in Ebike applications. It is considered the most stable lithium battery type available today (low risk of fire) and has a reasonably high life expectancy of over 1000 charges. There is a recently introduced battery chemistry that we will likely be seeing a lot of soon. Lithium-Nickel-Manganese-Cobalt-Oxide, or LiNiMnCoO2/NMC. Since Asian battery manufacturers have been working on a wide variety of alternative chemistries, a manufacturer standards group has chosen the  abbreviation NMC for this chemistry (although one wholesaler stubbornly calls it NCM). I purchased the 220v welder, which obviously was intended to run on non-US half of a phase 220v, Of course we have full single phase 220v, so could you supply me with a hint on how to wire the unit for US 220 v. I am working on a similar project, and was wondering if the BMS’s that you recommended would handle any back EMF from the motor (from regenerative braking, for example.) I see that there are separate leads for charging and discharging, so I’m guessing if current flowed back through the discharge circuit that would be bad. Do you have any recommendations on a BMS (or something different) that would handle this condition? For BMS’s, the highest quality ones come from a company called BesTechPower but they are more expensive. I have mostly used BMS’s from AliExpress. I’ve linked to a few examples of BMS’s I’ve used in the article above. [redirect url='http://bestelectricbikebattery.com//bump' sec='7']